Evolution? How?

It seems things have got pretty bad in the US.

I find it quite astounding that :

"...student groups espousing Evangelical Christianity are attacking many University Science programs in their newsletters and by campus proselytizing. "

My feeling is that we have not stamped on these people hard enough out of a reluctance to cause hurt. But religious fanatics of various colours are doing real damage. Its time to redress the balance, to fight FIRE with FIRE.

That is to fight fudamentalist irrational religious extremism with factual intelligble rational explanation.

Well, I have to disagree , all that will do is create martyrs in their minds. I firmly believe that, with constructive engagement, we can showthese people the silliness of their beliefs. There are a few Creationist Geologists. They admit, often, that they keep their views to themselves lest they get involved in arguments that they dont have the data to back up their points.
For example, when a geologist I know ,who was a young earther, got into a discusssion about "evidence for the flood", he couldnt keep up. His evidence was mostly belief, rather than fact based.

There is no stratigraphic evidence for a worldwide flood.

Its the softly softly approach that has only encouraged them.

The earth is not 6000 years old like 2+2 does not = 5.

I respect other people's deeply held religious beliefs, but there comes a point when sensitivities have to give way to sense.

We just cannot afford to give these religious fanatics anymore space.

Steve, It's more like 2+2 does not = 6 (thousand years).

could be they will publish a theologians mathematics text where any answer is just as valid as any other, providing that's what Jesus would have worked out.

WOW!

What proportion of the US population take these people even remotely seriously do you think?

I agree (but only when religious fanatics interfere with the science education of our young people).

Well IF you evolutionists ARE correct then, when I die... pfffffffffffft thats, it lets recycle the atoms into something else and keep on evolving. BUT if the Bible is right then there is an eternal place in heaven waiting for you if you want it. Go ahead and blow this off an arcane nonsense but if you haven't experienced the love of God then you won't get it. I really do believe there are Religious ramifications involved with evolution. I think it is grouped under philosophy. There are extremeists on BOTH sides of the issue, however most creationists prefer to take a more neutral stance. The trouble with the extremists evolutionists is that they are knocking bricks out of the foundation of the christians beliefs. (and probably vise versa). (BTW if you use the correct mathematical formula 1x1x1=1

Do you belive in invisible pink unicorns?

You need to belive in invisible pink unicorns for this exact reason, the invisible pink unicorns make a habit out of trampleing to death people who do not belive in them.


















Now doesn't that make for a convincing argument.

Einherjar, Just be sure you are wearing your asbestos pajamas when you cash in your chips :wink:

On CREATION CONFERENCE 2005, where did all these "doctors" earn their degrees? No wonder we're having so much controversy in the Terri Schiavo case.

An old Celtic saying: never play leapfrog with a unicorn

Obviously some of the people on this board got their degrees somewhere. Does Farmerman, Cicerone Imposter and others have degrees? Where did you get them?
Now here's the list again of creation scientisis in case you missed it earlier:
Note: Individuals on this list must possess a doctorate in a science-related field.

Dr Paul Ackerman, Psychologist
Dr James Allan, Geneticist
Dr Steve Austin, Geologist
Dr S.E. Aw, Biochemist
Dr Thomas Barnes, Physicist
Dr Don Batten, Plant physiologist, tropical fruit expert
Dr John Baumgardner, Electrical Engineering, Space Physicist, Geophysicist, expert in supercomputer modeling of plate tectonics
Dr Jerry Bergman, Psychologist
Dr Kimberly Berrine, Microbiology & Immunology
Prof. Vladimir Betina, Microbiology, Biochemistry & Biology
Dr Raymond G. Bohlin, Biologist
Dr Andrew Bosanquet, Biology, Microbiology
Dr David R. Boylan, Chemical Engineer
Prof. Linn E. Carothers, Associate Professor of Statistics
Dr David Catchpoole, Plant Physiologist (read his testimony)
Prof. Sung-Do Cha, Physics
Dr Eugene F. Chaffin, Professor of Physics
Dr Choong-Kuk Chang, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Jeun-Sik Chang, Aeronautical Engineering
Dr Donald Chittick, Physical Chemist
Prof. Chung-Il Cho, Biology Education
Dr Harold Coffin, Palaeontologist
Dr Bob Compton, DVM
Dr Ken Cumming, Biologist
Dr Jack W. Cuozzo, Dentist
Dr William M. Curtis III, Th.D., Th.M., M.S., Aeronautics & Nuclear Physics
Dr Malcolm Cutchins, Aerospace Engineering
Dr Lionel Dahmer, Analytical Chemist
Dr Raymond V. Damadian, M.D., Pioneer of magnetic resonance imaging
Dr Chris Darnbrough, Biochemist
Dr Bryan Dawson, Mathematics
Dr Douglas Dean, Biological Chemistry
Prof. Stephen W. Deckard, Assistant Professor of Education
Dr David A. DeWitt, Biology, Biochemistry, Neuroscience
Dr Don DeYoung, Astronomy, atmospheric physics, M.Div
Dr Geoff Downes, Creationist Plant Physiologist
Dr Ted Driggers, Operations research
Dr André Eggen, Geneticist
Prof. Dennis L. Englin, Professor of Geophysics
Prof. Danny Faulkner, Astronomy
Prof. Carl B. Fliermans, Professor of Biology
Prof. Robert H. Franks, Associate Professor of Biology
Dr Alan Galbraith, Watershed Science
Dr Paul Giem, Medical Research
Dr Maciej Giertych, Geneticist
Dr Duane Gish, Biochemist
Dr Werner Gitt, Information Scientist
Dr Dianne Grocott, Psychiatrist
Dr Stephen Grocott, Industrial Chemist
Dr Donald Hamann, Food Scientist
Dr Barry Harker, Philosopher
Dr Charles W. Harrison, Applied Physicist, Electromagnetics
Dr John Hartnett, Physicist and Cosmologist
Dr George Hawke, Environmental Scientist
Dr Margaret Helder, Science Editor, Botanist
Dr Harold R. Henry, Engineer
Dr Jonathan Henry, Astronomy
Dr Joseph Henson, Entomologist
Dr Robert A. Herrmann, Professor of Mathematics, US Naval Academy
Dr Andrew Hodge, Head of the Cardiothoracic Surgical Service
Dr Kelly Hollowell, Molecular and Cellular Pharmacologist
Dr Ed Holroyd, III, Atmospheric Science
Dr Bob Hosken, Biochemistry
Dr Neil Huber, Physical Anthropologist
Dr Russell Humphreys, Physicist
Dr James A. Huggins, Professor and Chair, Department of Biology
George T. Javor, Biochemistry
Dr Pierre Jerlström, Creationist Molecular Biologist
Dr Jonathan W. Jones, Plastic Surgeon
Dr Raymond Jones, Agricultural Scientist
Prof. Leonid Korochkin, Molecular Biology
Dr Valery Karpounin, Mathematical Sciences, Logics, Formal Logics
Dr Dean Kenyon, Biologist
Prof. Gi-Tai Kim, Biology
Prof. Harriet Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jong-Bai Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Han Kim, Biochemistry
Prof. Jung-Wook Kim, Environmental Science
Prof. Kyoung-Rai Kim, Analytical Chemistry
Prof. Kyoung-Tai Kim, Genetic Engineering
Prof. Young-Gil Kim, Materials Science
Prof. Young In Kim, Engineering
Dr John W. Klotz, Biologist
Dr Vladimir F. Kondalenko, Cytology/Cell Pathology
Dr Leonid Korochkin, M.D., Genetics, Molecular Biology, Neurobiology
Dr John K.G. Kramer, Biochemistry
Prof. Jin-Hyouk Kwon, Physics
Prof. Myung-Sang Kwon, Immunology
Prof. John Lennox, Mathematics
Dr John Leslie, Biochemist
Prof. Lane P. Lester, Biologist, Genetics
Dr Jason Lisle, Astrophysicist
Dr Alan Love, Chemist
Dr Ian Macreadie, molecular biologist and microbiologist:
Dr John Marcus, Molecular Biologist
Dr George Marshall, Eye Disease Researcher
Dr Ralph Matthews, Radiation Chemist
Dr John McEwan, Chemist
Prof. Andy McIntosh, Combustion theory, aerodynamics
Dr David Menton, Anatomist
Dr Angela Meyer: Creationist Plant Physiologist
Dr John Meyer , Physiologist
Dr John N. Moore, Science Educator
Dr. John W, Moreland, Mechanical engineer and Dentist
Dr Henry M. Morris, Hydrologist
Dr John D. Morris, Geologist
Dr Len Morris, Physiologist
Dr Graeme Mortimer, Geologist
Prof. Hee-Choon No, Nuclear Engineering
Dr Eric Norman, Biomedical researcher
Dr David Oderberg, Philosopher
Prof. John Oller, Linguistics
Prof. Chris D. Osborne, Assistant Professor of Biology
Dr John Osgood, Medical Practitioner
Dr Charles Pallaghy, Botanist
Dr Gary E. Parker, Biologist, Cognate in Geology (Paleontology)
Dr David Pennington, Plastic Surgeon
Prof. Richard Porter
Dr John Rankin, Cosmologist
Dr A.S. Reece, M.D.
Prof. J. Rendle-Short, Pediatrics
Dr Jung-Goo Roe, Biology
Dr David Rosevear, Chemist
Dr Ariel A. Roth, Biology
Dr Jonathan D. Sarfati, Physical chemist / spectroscopist
Dr Joachim Scheven Palaeontologist:
Dr Ian Scott, Educator
Dr Saami Shaibani, Forensic physicist
Dr Young-Gi Shim, Chemistry
Prof. Hyun-Kil Shin, Food Science
Dr Mikhail Shulgin, Physics
Dr Emil Silvestru, Geologist/karstologist
Dr Roger Simpson, Engineer
Dr Harold Slusher, Geophysicist
Dr Andrew Snelling , Geologist
Prof. Man-Suk Song, Computer Science
Dr Timothy G. Standish, Biology
Prof. James Stark , Assistant Professor of Science Education
Prof. Brian Stone, Engineer
Dr Esther Su, Biochemistry
Dr Charles Taylor, Linguistics
Dr Michael Todhunter, Forest Genetics
Dr Lyudmila Tonkonog, Chemistry/Biochemistry
Dr Royal Truman, Organic Chemist:
Dr Larry Vardiman, Atmospheric Science
Prof. Walter Veith, Zoologist
Dr Joachim Vetter, Biologist
Dr Tas Walker, Mechanical Engineer and Geologist
Dr Jeremy Walter, Mechanical Engineer
Dr Keith Wanser, Physicist
Dr Noel Weeks, Ancient Historian (also has B.Sc. in Zoology)
Dr A.J. Monty White, Chemistry/Gas Kinetics
Dr Carl Wieland, Medical doctor
Dr Lara Wieland, Medical doctor
Dr Clifford Wilson, Psycholinguist and archaeologist
Dr Kurt Wise, Palaeontologist
Dr Bryant Wood, Creationist Archaeologist
Prof. Seoung-Hoon Yang, Physics
Dr Thomas (Tong Y.) Yi, Ph.D., Creationist Aerospace & Mechanical Engineering
Dr Ick-Dong Yoo, Genetics
Dr Sung-Hee Yoon, Biology
Dr Patrick Young, Chemist and Materials Scientist
Prof. Keun Bae Yu, Geography
Dr Henry Zuill, Biology

Jack, I got my BS degree from Cal State Hayward, and worked in management for the greater part of my career. That's the reason I mentioned the fact that the populace of this country is in great confusion, because so many "doctors" are at odds about Terri Schiavo's condition.

Thanks C.I. I don't want to get into the Teri Schivo thing because what we hear on the local news and read in the papres in only a VERY small part of what is really going on. I work at the Modesto Bee newspaper and saw what went on with the Scott Peterson thing. If you could only see what WASN'T printed. The right to lifers have one side of the story and the right to deathers have the other...Kinda like the creationists and evolutionists. I've seen your mention of Teri Schivo earlier and didn't respond because I didn't feel it was appropiate. BTW I had some cousins went to Cal State Hayward. Seems to be a good school.

Jack,

There are many scientists whose personal beliefs include belief in a Creator. This does not mean that their belief is based on science.

How can a mundane answer explain how something came out of absolutely nothing?

Insult is the lowest form of debate, but testimonial is the second lowest, and, logically, is of no significance. Every argument must be judged on its merits alone, and the qualifications of the person who advanced it are irrelevant.

If evolution started chemically who put the chemicals here? Chemicals don't just appear out of the ether... Well chemicals are made of atoms... who put the atoms here? Well atoms are made of electrons and quarks... well who put the quarks here? Well the quarks are part of the fiber of time... Well who put the fibre of time here? Well they are strings that vibrate and make dimensions... Well who put the strings that vibrate there? Well they think that strings are this foam substance that everything is made up of... again who put the foam there?

Gillette?