RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2005 08:21 pm
farmerman wrote:
rex. earlier in this thread we had a small discussion on the rethinking of what was once known as "junk" DNA and this article is a good summary of the salient points, thanks.


Biology is full of so many real answers... this article has really hit the point...

Hope all is well...

Happy Holidays
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2005 08:48 pm
timberlandko wrote:
real life wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
Now, immediately following the birth of Jesus Matthew has Joseph and family flee to Egypt to avoid Herod's slaughter of babes (itself a singular and spectacular event unremarked in any other annals), remaining in hiding there for some years.


Where does it say this? It doesn't.

Yes it does:
[url=http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/mat2.html][u][i][b]2 Matthew: 13-21 (KJV)[/b][/i][/u][/url] wrote:

13 And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.

14 When he arose, he took the young child and his mother by night, and departed into Egypt:

15 And was there until the death of Herod: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Out of Egypt have I called my son.

16 Then Herod, when he saw that he was mocked of the wise men, was exceeding wroth, and sent forth, and slew all the children that were in Bethlehem, and in all the coasts thereof, from two years old and under, according to the time which he had diligently enquired of the wise men.

17 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet, saying,

18 In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.

19 But when Herod was dead, behold, an angel of the Lord appeareth in a dream to Joseph in Egypt,

20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life.

21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel.


(These posts are getting kinda long, so I'm gonna try to make them a little shorter.)

Timber ,

The point you are trying to make is the time factor. You are trying to say that Jesus & family could not have gone into Egypt for several years AND DURING THE SAME TIME have gone to the temple in Jerusalem when Jesus was 40 days old.

Matthew 2:13-21 DOES NOT SAY how long they were in Egypt.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2005 08:53 pm
timberlandko wrote:
real life wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
Luke has them shortly after the nativity return to Nazareth, from whence he has Joseph and Mary present the infant at the temple in Jerusalem 40 days following the birth........ Obviously, we're dealing with a miracle here; as the Bible is inerrant, Jesus and family possessed the unique ability to be 2 places at once.


Where does it say this? It doesn't.

Yes it does.
[url=http://www.christiananswers.net/bible/luke2.html][u][i][b]2 Luke: 21-24, 39-41 (KJV)[/b][/i][/u][/url] wrote:

21 And when eight days were accomplished for the circumcising of the child, his name was called JESUS, which was so named of the angel before he was conceived in the womb.

22 And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord;

23 (As it is written in the law of the Lord, Every male that openeth the womb shall be called holy to the Lord;)

24 And to offer a sacrifice according to that which is said in the law of the Lord, A pair of turtledoves, or two young pigeons ...

39 And when they had performed all things according to the law of the Lord, they returned into Galilee, to their own city Nazareth.

40 And the child grew, and waxed strong in spirit, filled with wisdom: and the grace of God was upon him.

41 Now his parents went to Jerusalem every year at the feast of the passover ...




Timber,

The point you are trying to make is the time factor. You are trying to say that Jesus & family could not have gone into Egypt for several years AND DURING THE SAME TIME have gone to the temple in Jerusalem when Jesus was 40 days old.

Luke 2:21-24, 39-41 DOES NOT SAY how old Jesus was when they took Him to the temple to dedicate Him.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2005 09:10 pm
farmerman wrote:
real life
Quote:
I gave you 4 instances in Mark where Christ specifically foretold his future was to be killed and to rise again. How is this trivial?

I beg to differ. You gave me one from Mark which says nothing and the endof which is (among other passages) where the Centurion speaks"Surely this man was the son of God and "he calls Elija" This part is considered to be A QUESTIONED DOCUMENT by a number of scholars. The others that you to which you point my attention were your opinions plus there was 1 more fromJOHN. .......


Near the end of this post http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1735920&highlight=inclusion#1735920

I gave 4 quotations from Mark where Jesus speaks of His mission with certainty and finality. He is to be killed and rise again. He knows it and tells His disciples.

The writer you have been referring to, the author of Misquoting Jesus[/b], certainly chose an apt title for his tome if he tries to leave the impression that the Jesus of Mark's gospel is uncertain of His mission. Nothing of the kind could be implied by the plain language of Jesus' predictions of His death in the gospel of Mark. (Okay, so one of the four is a parable, but it is evident by the reaction of the Jewish leaders that they understood it.)
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2005 09:43 pm
OK - for sake of argument, I'll grant Matthew doesn't say precisely how long the Eqyptian sojourn was. However, if you know your bible, Luke is absolutely explicit about his timeline;

[url=http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Lev&chapter=12&version=kjv&Go.x=35&Go.y=12][u][i][b]12 Leviticus: 1-8 (KJV)[/b][/i][/u][/url] wrote:

1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.
3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
4 And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled.
5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.
6 And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest:
7 Who shall offer it before the LORD, and make an atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This [is] the law for her that hath born a male or a female.
8 And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean

Mosaic law decrees 7 days of unleanliness followed by "three and thirty days" of purification following the birth of a male child during which a woman " ... shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary", further establishing the 8th day following the birth as the day of circumcision. No ambiguity there - 2 Luke 22: " ... And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord ... "

All this apart from the minimum of a decade between the end of Herod's life, Herod who the Gospels unambiguously identify as reigning at the time of the nativity, and the posting to Syria of Quirinius, equally unambiguously identified in the Gospels as Governor of Syria.

Whether you wish to have your cake or to eat it, the one you have on hand is at best half-baked.
0 Replies
 
talk72000
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2005 11:00 pm
Isaiah 9:
7. Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even forever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

Jesus failed to ascend "the throne of David", much less "establish" a government "with justice and peace".

Luke 12:
49. I am come to send fire on the earth; and what will I, if it be already kindled? (Words of an arsonist, certainly not a peacemaker!)
50. Suppose ye that I am come to give peace on earth? I tell you, Nay; but rather division: (Jesus denies that he is a peacemaker!)
51. For from henceforth there shall be five in one house divided, three against two, and two against three. (Jesus divides people)

Matthew 10:4
Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace on earth, but a sword.

Jesus was NOT the Prince of Peace but an angry man.

But the Proverbs 22:24-23 warns "Make no friendship with an angry man; and with a furious man thou shalt not go: Lest thou learn his ways, and get a snare to thy soul."

Matthew 16:
15. He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am?
16. And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.
17. And I say unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
18. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

Mark 8:
27 "...Whom do men say I am? (Jesus does not know what people think of him so he asks his disciples.)
29 And he saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Peter answereth and saith unto him, Thou art the Christ.

Jesus did not know what people thought of him nor his disciples thought of him so he enquired. He liked Peter's answer very much and gave him the keys to his church.

Matthew 16:23
But he turned, and said unto Peter, Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an offense unto me:" (Jesus showed no loyalty to his strongest supporter.)
Jesus went further and mentioned about being killed. Peter instantly rebuked him for such a suggestion and would not have it. Jesus getting angry at Peter for not going along with his sacrificial mission called Peter "Satan". How ephemeral Jesus moods and loyalties were. So, Peter, who is Satan, built Jesus' church!

Luke 12:53
The father shall be divided against the son, and the son against the father; the mother against the daughter, the daughter against the mother; the mother-in-law against her daughter-in-law. and the daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law. (Fifth Commandment!?)

Matthew 10:37
He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. (Jesus preached to "dishonor" filial relationship!)



Exodus 20:12
Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. (Fifth of the Ten Commandments.)

Matthew 4:
17. Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfill. (Strange way of fulfilling a law by preaching to break it! Another case of two-faced hypocrisy?)
18. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Jesus contradicted himself with his own words here. He was teaching to break one of the BIG laws, none other than the Ten Commandments. One can only infer that Jesus by his own words would not be called "great" in the "kingdom of heaven".

Isaiah 9:
1. "...and afterwards did more grievously afflict her by the way of the sea, beyond Jordan, in Galilee of the nations." (How true, Jesus unleashed such a powerful hatred for his own people that Israel and the Jewish people have not been "more grievously afflicted" than by this same Galilean!)
The people that walked in darkness have seen a great light: they that dwelled in the land of the shadow of death, upon them hath the light shined.

From Jesus' comments he appeared to be a politician saying different things to different groups to cobble together a coalition.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Dec, 2005 11:31 pm
timberlandko wrote:
OK - for sake of argument, I'll grant Matthew doesn't say precisely how long the Eqyptian sojourn was. However, if you know your bible, Luke is absolutely explicit about his timeline;

[url=http://www.blueletterbible.org/cgi-bin/tools/printer-friendly.pl?book=Lev&chapter=12&version=kjv&Go.x=35&Go.y=12][u][i][b]12 Leviticus: 1-8 (KJV)[/b][/i][/u][/url] wrote:

1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
2 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, If a woman have conceived seed, and born a man child: then she shall be unclean seven days; according to the days of the separation for her infirmity shall she be unclean.
3 And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.
4 And she shall then continue in the blood of her purifying three and thirty days; she shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary, until the days of her purifying be fulfilled.
5 But if she bear a maid child, then she shall be unclean two weeks, as in her separation: and she shall continue in the blood of her purifying threescore and six days.
6 And when the days of her purifying are fulfilled, for a son, or for a daughter, she shall bring a lamb of the first year for a burnt offering, and a young pigeon, or a turtledove, for a sin offering, unto the door of the tabernacle of the congregation, unto the priest:
7 Who shall offer it before the LORD, and make an atonement for her; and she shall be cleansed from the issue of her blood. This [is] the law for her that hath born a male or a female.
8 And if she be not able to bring a lamb, then she shall bring two turtles, or two young pigeons; the one for the burnt offering, and the other for a sin offering: and the priest shall make an atonement for her, and she shall be clean

Mosaic law decrees 7 days of unleanliness followed by "three and thirty days" of purification following the birth of a male child during which a woman " ... shall touch no hallowed thing, nor come into the sanctuary", further establishing the 8th day following the birth as the day of circumcision. No ambiguity there - 2 Luke 22: " ... And when the days of her purification according to the law of Moses were accomplished, they brought him to Jerusalem, to present him to the Lord ... "

All this apart from the minimum of a decade between the end of Herod's life, Herod who the Gospels unambiguously identify as reigning at the time of the nativity, and the posting to Syria of Quirinius, equally unambiguously identified in the Gospels as Governor of Syria.

Whether you wish to have your cake or to eat it, the one you have on hand is at best half-baked.


Luke only says that they went to the temple after the days were accomplished (per Lev 12:1-8) for her purification. He doesn't specify how soon after. And add that to your erroneous interpretation of a long stay in Egypt, your argument for 'being two places at once' simply falls apart.

Some more interesting reading on Quirinius

Quote:
Roman governor of Syria about 6 C.E., with whose name are associated events and problems of great importance. After the banishment of Archelaus in the year 6, a date confirmed by Dio Cassius (lv. 27), Judea came under the direct administration of the Romans, and was incorporated with the province of Syria. It thus becomes clear why the emperor Augustus should have ordered the ex-consul Quirinius[/b] (Greek, Κυρήνιος) to Syria to levy an assessment (Josephus, "Ant." xvii. 13, § 5). At the same time Coponius was sent as procurator of Judea; but Quirinius went thither also, since the levying of the tax on the entire province was his special duty (ib. xviii. 1, § 1).

The assessment caused great dissatisfaction among the Jews (ib.), and open revolt was prevented only by the efforts of the high priest Joazar (ib. 2, § 1). The levying of this assessment resulted, moreover, in the revolt of Judas the Galilean and in the formation of the party of the Zealots (Josephus, "B. J." vii. 8, § 1; Lucas, in Acts v. 37). Josephus mentions the assessment in another passage also ("Ant." xx. 5, § 2).
from http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/view.jsp?artid=9&letter=Q

Quote:
..........Luke calls Quirinius "governor of Syria." Quirinius did have the title of governor of Syria at the time of the second census. But, at this earlier date, Quirinius most likely had only the role of one who governs, rather than the actual title. Similarly, Luke calls Pontius Pilate "governor of Judea" (Lk 3:1), even though Pilate had the title of procurator. Luke uses the word "governor" to mean "one who governs." ...................

Dr. E. Jerry Vardaman also offers archaeological evidence in support of the conclusion that the 12 B.C. census was the census of Luke 2:2. A census is mentioned on an ancient tombstone called "Lapis Venetus" (stone of Venice). The tombstone was for a Roman officer who, under orders from Quirinius, made a census of Apamea, a city in Syria. Vardaman uses microletters on the tombstone to date the tombstone itself to 10 B.C. Microletters on the tombstone also state that the census of Apamea took place in the year that Quirinius was a Roman consul

from http://www.biblicalchronology.com/census.htm
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 12:01 am
Setanta wrote:
......provide an answer to the question of what your circumstantial evidence is for a direct creation of all the life forms on this planet.........


When last we left this discussion, the Cambrian explosion was one of the focal points.

Do you insist that 10-13 new phyla of the most complex animal life evolved, within the space of just 40-50 million years[/b] (about 1% of the historical time attributed to the entire age of the Earth) during the Cambrian period, as the fossil record interpreted by leading evolutionists indicates?

I submit to you that there is no naturalistic mechanism that can account for so many incredibly diverse and complex animal forms, body plans, organs, systems etc to appear in such a short amount of time.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 06:22 am
Your assertion to that effect does not constitute circumstantial evidence that your imaginary friend created such diversity. Tediously, once again, the failure--or, as in this case (FM will be along shortly, no doubt), the apparent failure--of science to provide what you deem a satisfactory answer is not evidence of a creation by your imaginary friend.

You still have failed to provide circumstantial evidence of a creation. You consistently point to scientific lacunae, or what you allege are lacunae, as such evidence, rather than pointing to any specific evidence for your creation. You deal in what you claim the other person cannot account for rather than in what you can account for.

************************************

You have insisted upon Jones as a reliable source for primary documents--which i have not disputed. Nevertheless, neither from Jones nor any other source have you been able to assert a census such as that alleged in Luke.

Therefore:

. . . you have failed to demonstrate that a census took place in the time frame for the alleged birth of Jesus as posited by the majority of christian scholars;

. . . you have failed to demonstrate that any imperial census counted anyone but citizens (those whom local censii may have had affair with don't matter--Luke alleges an imperial census);

. . . you have failed to demonstrate that any imperial census required people to return to their birthplace (allegations of the requirements local censii don't matter--Luke alleges an imperial census);

. . . you have failed to address the issue of the very likely catastrophic consequences of such a dislocation of people;

. . . you have failed to address the issue of the incapacity of the transportation systems of the day to have accomodated such a migration of people.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 08:26 am
real life
Quote:
I submit to you that there is no naturalistic mechanism that can account for so many incredibly diverse and complex animal forms, body plans, organs, systems etc to appear in such a short amount of time.
. I see, and youve established this how?. A bit of trick photography, before the beginning of the Cambrian, Parvincorina and Charnodiscus bore a great similarity to trilobites and notochords.
This argument f yours is an effort to establish some authority when you havent a clue of what you speak. Just because youve read it in AIG doesnt meana thing. If you nderstand the time period and the conditions that existed, youd understand that planetary global tectonics had, at the end of the pre Cambrian established Gondwana with evdences of large isolated inland seas, in which are evidenced many different "first time" species (Many of which were evolutionary dead ends).

Your wording is selective and quite scholarly, have you actually seen these "complex lifeforms and examined their complexity" I have , and there is no way that one can establish the internals of a trilobite from a fossil all this is done by inferences from external body parts (Fortey 2000) sndd we have plenty of pre CAmbrian legs and eyes and feelers etc in the record
Might I suggest a deeper inquiry into Narbonne and Gehling (2003) and Seilacher (1992) before you try to advance an argument from authority.
Landing (1989) had produced a good discussion of the development of "Hardshell life" at the Cambrian base, and it has nothing to do with "miracles"
Pre Cambrian life ws abundant and of a kind that could serve as progenitors of the later bauplans(legs and eyes and other "complex " parts). The Cambrian explosion was, in fact, a dispersion of fossils with hard parts and include sponges with hard spicules, brachiopods (with clearly identifiable striae) artnropods, including trilobites and echinoids.
All these appearances occur in sediments that have no unconformities or bioturbation or turbidity currents (Zhuravlev 2001) This indicates a complete "quiet time" with an absence of changing sea levels or glaciation.However, the transistion of the above animals from arthropods with few hard parts (Tribrachidium) to hard parts (olenellus) seems to be a function of the tectonic conditions worldwide (most of the world was in a temperate tropical mix and free Oxygen was at an all time high, no meteoric impacts etc. so going from a suspected pre cambrian arthropod tribrachidium, to a basal CAmbrian trilobite olenellus, isnt such a grand leap requiring intervention. (the fact that were even talking about these deep time ages means that you are no longer a "Young earther" neh?)
The summary of Zhuravlev is that at the basal Cambrian, the orders were already all there , they merely began to develop shells in the 7 to 10 million year period that you are questioning.

If you want a miracle, the animals that crossed the precambrian/Cambrian line were mostly already there so your miracle only involves exoskeletal hard parts. The reamaining orders of animals and plants had to wait through the rest of thePaleozoic to show up. So, once again, your appeal to "Its a mystery" isnt as appealing.
In truth we dont understand why then and not earlier did the fossils evidence more shelly material, perhaps the early "hard part" creatures used a chitinous rather than calcareous shell and , of these , only the arthropods retained that mechanism. Since life appears in a sequence that has been interpreted by stratigraphic and dating techniques, we do see the entire progression of life from the Vendean through the Pleistocene included only about 14% of the total time that the planet was here. 86% of the earlier time (preVendean0 we only have some indications of protists, cyano bacter stromatolite biostrome reefs, archeobacter and an early indicator at abou 3.8 BY BP from Greenland in which carbon isotopes of the C12 variety indicate life in a carbonaceous shale. But Ive been generous and said that well start with the Vendean even though we know that there were single celled and colonial life-forms prior, the Vendean contains all the biggy deposits of the Placentia,Burin, Ediacaran , and the multi African sites near Botswana .

Your pronouncement that this cannot have occured naturally isnt consistent with all the facts.Yours is a religious "wish" not an evidence borne conclusion. So, unless you pose some real hard evidence of your sides thinking , (other than our secret pal), Ill continue to practise my craft without a quick submission to GSA or Geotimes that " weve just found out that our previous models are all incorrect"
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 01:47 pm
rl, all you have provided is contrarian, minority opinion pieces - some, such as your cite from Conte's website, from out-and-out Rense.com-quality crackpots. The intellectual gymnastics exhibited in the posts by which you attermpt to press your proposition continue to at once disclose an utter lack of academic integrity and to amuse. Thank the stars for folks who take the tack you've evidenced here; such "argument" is the reason the ID-iots in Dover not only lost decisively today but now are saddled with reimbursing their opponents all litigation costs. Pity the judge didn't levy compensatory damages.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 01:57 pm
timberlandko wrote:
such "argument" is the reason the ID-iots in Dover not only lost decisively today but now are saddled with reimbursing their opponents all litigation costs.


Sweet.
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 02:11 pm
rosborne979 wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
such "argument" is the reason the ID-iots in Dover not only lost decisively today but now are saddled with reimbursing their opponents all litigation costs.


Sweet.


excellent. Happy Christmas. There is a God after all.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 02:45 pm
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
rosborne979 wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
such "argument" is the reason the ID-iots in Dover not only lost decisively today but now are saddled with reimbursing their opponents all litigation costs.


Sweet.


excellent. Happy Christmas. There is a God after all.


At first when I saw this, I thought sweet, the debate in Kansas is over. Then I realised that Dover isn't in Kansas, especially not the one with the White Cliffs and the P&O ferries that never leave because of French protestors on the other side of the English Channel.

(Presumably, they're protesting at fuel prices by cutting off only one of the several routes by which goods can get over the channel).
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 02:48 pm
I think he means Dover, PA
0 Replies
 
Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 03:06 pm
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
Steve (as 41oo) wrote:
rosborne979 wrote:
timberlandko wrote:
such "argument" is the reason the ID-iots in Dover not only lost decisively today but now are saddled with reimbursing their opponents all litigation costs.


Sweet.


excellent. Happy Christmas. There is a God after all.


At first when I saw this, I thought sweet, the debate in Kansas is over. Then I realised that Dover isn't in Kansas, especially not the one with the White Cliffs and the P&O ferries that never leave because of French protestors on the other side of the English Channel.

(Presumably, they're protesting at fuel prices by cutting off only one of the several routes by which goods can get over the channel).


I am saying with a certain amount of irony, a quality that seems lost on so many Americans, thank God: creationists idionists relgionists mormonists islamiscists jehovahs witnesesses CAN OFFICIALL GO FUKK THEMSELVES.
0 Replies
 
timberlandko
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 03:07 pm
Yup, Dover PA - while the ID-iots will howl, with this finding and the Supreme's 1987 smackdown of Creationism, ain't nobody of consequence gonna listen.
0 Replies
 
rosborne979
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 03:12 pm
timberlandko wrote:
Yup, Dover PA - while the ID-iots will howl, with this finding and the Supreme's 1987 smackdown of Creationism, ain't nobody of consequence gonna listen.


Let's hope not, because we need to get back to figuring out how to provide better education, both in science and philosophy, so that the next generation of adults knows better than to fall for ID and Creationism.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 03:15 pm
Steve, I think you can be sure the JWs don't care one way or the other about whether ID is taught in the schools.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Dec, 2005 03:31 pm
neologist wrote:
I think he means Dover, PA


Yes, I am well aware that he was talking about the Dover in which the entire pro-ID school board was voted off. Of course, that means the recent judicial ruling is kinda academic, doesn't it? Sort of like rubbing it in their ID supporters' faces.

Thing is, the science curriculum needs to be changed. The first thing that should be taught is how science works and how things need to be falsifiable. They should also be taught how scientific viewpoints change etc. etc.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

 
  1. Forums
  2. » Evolution? How?
  3. » Page 314
Copyright © 2024 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.14 seconds on 11/17/2024 at 03:40:07