thunder runner32
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 11:00 am
What exactly does evolution have to do with functional science anyways? By functional I mean, medicine, technology, etc.
0 Replies
 
wandeljw
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 11:15 am
thunder_runner32 wrote:
What exactly does evolution have to do with functional science anyways? By functional I mean, medicine, technology, etc.


The answer to this question has been posted before. Epidemiologists study the evolution of bacteria, viruses and study their adaptation and resistance to agents used to get rid of them (an example of natural selection which is being observed daily in laboratories). This evolutionary study of bacteria has valuable applications to medicine.
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 01:53 pm
thunder_runner32 wrote:
What exactly does evolution have to do with functional science anyways? By functional I mean, medicine, technology, etc.


Animal testing relies on evolution to be correct.

It relies on the notion that we all had common ancestors and that the organs evolved early on. The earlier it appeared, the more likely it is to be similar to those of other species. The same go for biological processes such as apoptosis etc.

You know those scientific breakthroughs in cancer? Well, the studies in humans alone isn't valid enough. It has to be proved in other species using the equivalent genes or proteins in other species.

If evolution was not correct, animal testing would be completely unjustified. If evolution was incorrect, all scientific breakthroughs using model organisms that aren't human cells, would be completely unjustified.

All phamarceutical and biological medical research would hence be limted to humans, which are the most difficult species to work with in research terms.

Medical research would slow down. Breakthroughs would be less frequent.

And let's not forget research into Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy (DMD). It is a nasty little disease and most research I've seen uses embryos. Well, religious fundamentalists are against using human embryos, but if evolution was destroyed, scientists would have to use nothing but human embryos as the mouse embryos they use would thus become scientifically irrelevant to investigating the causes of DMD. That's not to say they don't use human embryos now, but without evolution, more would be used.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 06:22 pm
Setanta wrote:
My, my, my Neo--how harsh your tone. You sound bitter. Is the strain getting to you?

If Frank has toadies, which i doubt, i rather suspect they found him before you did.

Lighten up, boy . . . here, have some bar-b-qued wings and a nice soft drink . . .
Sorry about the toady remark. It was uncalled for Laughing

But I would enjoy some barbecued wings, Thank you.

Is Frank really banned? How could that be? He sent me a pm crowing about his exploits. I begged him to come back; Why wouldn't he tell me? Do you think I may have offended him? :wink:
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 07:15 pm
a number of antivirals rely upon the human immunosystem to react like the model host from which the vaccine was developed in embryos.

Id like to put in a little stump for some of the techy material like Powder xray photography, PCR and various gel electrophoresis units that were developed to create and duplicate entire gene strtches and construct parts of genomes that show the basis for a lot of the statements about common ancestry

Also the non coding and extra DNA sections that allow us to type the phenotypes of many separate populations.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:01 pm
Wolf_ODonnell wrote:
thunder_runner32 wrote:
What exactly does evolution have to do with functional science anyways? By functional I mean, medicine, technology, etc.


Animal testing relies on evolution to be correct.

It relies on the notion that we all had common ancestors and that the organs evolved early on. The earlier it appeared, the more likely it is to be similar to those of other species. The same go for biological processes such as apoptosis etc.

You know those scientific breakthroughs in cancer? Well, the studies in humans alone isn't valid enough. It has to be proved in other species using the equivalent genes or proteins in other species.

If evolution was not correct, animal testing would be completely unjustified. If evolution was incorrect, all scientific breakthroughs using model organisms that aren't human cells, would be completely unjustified.

All phamarceutical and biological medical research would hence be limted to humans, which are the most difficult species to work with in research terms.

Medical research would slow down. Breakthroughs would be less frequent.

And let's not forget research into Duchenne Muscular Dystrophy (DMD). It is a nasty little disease and most research I've seen uses embryos. Well, religious fundamentalists are against using human embryos, but if evolution was destroyed, scientists would have to use nothing but human embryos as the mouse embryos they use would thus become scientifically irrelevant to investigating the causes of DMD. That's not to say they don't use human embryos now, but without evolution, more would be used.


Hi Wolf,

Since animals and humans share the same environment, and face many of the same challenges regarding weather, topography, etc and similar diets ( i.e. many of the same plants are included in the diet of both man and animal ) , then it is only natural that they may be found to share similarities in design.

This is not proof of evolution at all. The inference that if humans and animals did not share a common ancestor then they would not have similar structures or similar chemistry is simply that -- an inference, and not 'proof' of anything.
0 Replies
 
real life
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 09:03 pm
wandeljw wrote:
thunder_runner32 wrote:
What exactly does evolution have to do with functional science anyways? By functional I mean, medicine, technology, etc.


The answer to this question has been posted before. Epidemiologists study the evolution of bacteria, viruses and study their adaptation and resistance to agents used to get rid of them (an example of natural selection which is being observed daily in laboratories). This evolutionary study of bacteria has valuable applications to medicine.


I've asked this many times, but have the bacteria ever been observed to 'evolve' into anything but bacteria?

When your body rallies against an invader and repels sickness, have you 'evolved'?
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Fri 4 Nov, 2005 11:56 pm
Here we are with "real life's" did it evolve into something else idiocy. The boy just cannot help displaying his monumental, moronic ignorance. If your body produces a unique antibody to fight disease which gives you, and everyone who possesses that hitherto unknown antibody an improved breeding opportunity, then yes, you will have evolved. In your case, that would be about the only way you would ever be likely to display evidence of being evolved.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 02:10 am
So into what sort of species do you evolve if you survive the bird flu?

Cackle. Cackle. Laughing
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 06:09 am
evolution of viruses allows research to proceed to allow researchers to unravel mechanisms more easily than more long term species modification.
The Spanish flu had , by killing off its host (us) been forced to evolve into a less lethal strain that still is among us today.This lower lethality was a function of how the disease was transmitted, rabies, on the other hand, has a few strains but all are about 100% lethal because the transmission method is by active attack by the infected victim and is passed through saliva into open wounds. The etiology of rabies includes an active "mad" victim stage which assures further contact, in the Spanish flu, however, the victim went to bed and had little further contact so the less virulent strains became almost exclusive and the lethal strain (18 million people later) pretty much died out.
Theyve done research with exhumed victims to look at what killed the people who died of Spanish flu and it was found to be almost entirely from immune system overload where the most healthy were at most risk.Those that survived had a subsequent immunity whether conferred genetic or "extra genetic


Set, Im convinced that real life is a "beta tester" for outrageous Creationist thinking (or lack thereof).
0 Replies
 
Wolf ODonnell
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 07:47 am
Forget it. This post has been insanely circular from the very beginning.

Creationists sound like a broken record to me.

I'm sick and tired of going over the same points over and over again.
0 Replies
 
neologist
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 08:06 am
But you keep comin' back. Laughing
0 Replies
 
username
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 04:45 pm
real, the bacteria question has been dealt with above. They don't evolve into "something else", they evolve into bacteria with different traits, which fill different niches. That's evolution too, you know, it's not a bacteria becoming a beetle.

If I remember correctly, a few dozen pages back you mentioned worry about bird flu attacking humans. That's evolution. And it's evolution that happens in a comparatively short time span. And I'm really surprised you don't realize it. When an organism adapts to fill a new ecological niche, which it couldn't before, that's evolution, and it's happened repeatedly with zoonoses, diseases animals get that humans don't, that adapt to attack humans too. Smallpox is one (mutated from cowpox). AIDS is another (apparently from simian SIV). Zoonoses adapt with some frequency, from populations where humans and animals live in close proximity. Viruses and bacteria, for example, can and do interchange genetic material with other closely-related organisms they come in contact with. So one of the worrisome scenarios with bird flu (and there are actually something like forty different flu strains that affect birds all the time--it's just the new lethal one we
worry about at the moment), is that one may infect pigs, which are susceptible to the new strain and are also susceptible to human flu viruses, and the two virus strains may exchange genetic material, and the new strain may be lethal to humans. Such things happen with some frequency. And that's evolution. Try explaining that by ID.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 06:30 pm
farmerman wrote:
Set, Im convinced that real life is a "beta tester" for outrageous Creationist thinking (or lack thereof).


Kinda like Babblefish for the ID crowd, huh?
0 Replies
 
englishmajor
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 06:36 pm
I don't plan to read all 504 pages here! but may I make a comment? It may already have been addressed, and if so, sorry, but here goes:

What is wrong with the idea that a higher being, a 'something' created Earth and its various inhabitants, then allowed everything to 'evolve' as the climate, etc dictated? i.e. camels that can go without water for months in an arid area - couldn't these creatures have adapted over time? I have a difficult time believing in the primordial soup theory. Too much variation in plants, animals, etc.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 06:40 pm
Don't sweat it, Boss, we have a plethora of participants who display difficulty in believing plausible things here . . . to an extent which suggest that writing the instructions on the heel of a boot would not help them pour piss out of said boot . . . so jump right in, the water's fine . . .
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 06:40 pm
englishmajor wrote:
I don't plan to read all 504 pages here! but may I make a comment? It may already have been addressed, and if so, sorry, but here goes:

What is wrong with the idea that a higher being, a 'something' created Earth and its various inhabitants, then allowed everything to 'evolve' as the climate, etc dictated? i.e. camels that can go without water for months in an arid area - couldn't these creatures have adapted over time? I have a difficult time believing in the primordial soup theory. Too much variation in plants, animals, etc.


This has been brought in in one manner or other. I for one have mentioned along this line. Be prepared to be bombarded with "scientific facts" for evolution and the big bang.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 06:41 pm
By the way EM, Canada is a masculine noun, as in je suis au Canada, faut de mieux . . . --'K? Try to keep that straight, yer gonna embarrass all the knowledgable Canajuns here . . .
0 Replies
 
englishmajor
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 06:44 pm
Science is a guessing game. At one time they all thought the Earth was the centre of the universe. Their theories abound, but they are only theories. I have always thought the 'big bang' sounded like something a 3 year old would make up. What a scientific explanation for something so catastrophic. Thanks for the warning, anyway, I'm sure I'll be bombarded. But I won't change my mind. Bombard away!
0 Replies
 
Intrepid
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Nov, 2005 06:58 pm
Setanta wrote:
By the way EM, Canada is a masculine noun, as in je suis au Canada, faut de mieux . . . --'K? Try to keep that straight, yer gonna embarrass all the knowledgable Canajuns here . . .


Don't sweat it Set. Englishmajor is more likely to embarrass you 'merkins since english major is a transplant from the good 'ole U.S. of A. We Canadians are a forgiving lot.
Laughing
0 Replies
 
 

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