Evolution? How?

more real life stuff

They attempt to harass the docents with a group of 30 or more of their "like minded" friends. Your ability to comprehend is at best vestigial. lets not engage in bumper stickers . And you kinow this how? Sounds like ole real life is engaging in self delusion again

Now youve just removed Creationism from any scientific discourse because there is neither

1 a scintilla of evidence to support it

2 Besides, nobody whos a Creationist is bothering to look anyway, youre just busy quote mining scientists
Unfortunately real life is unable to verbalize what those different ways are because they all lead back to support evolution, no matter how he may wish it to be otherwise



Lamarck beat you to that one as well as Lysenko, so you believe in acquired characteristics? thats sort of a bastardized evolution. Im not sure where you stand anymore, youre kinda working hard to hold together a cohesive argument

We dont know the answers , but heres the evidence that we provide. All arguments in Evolution proceed this way, or else they are laughed at, sort of like... well you knownow this is real lifes comments to me
Hardly converse. They attempt to accost the poor docents with a well funded bus load of wannabee Evangelists who neither have a decent understanding of the evidence but like to harass old ladies. Ill take you on, guaranteed no prisoners. I have no museum reputation or "be nice to the tourists"prime directive in which I have in my work contract.



What part of Piltdown Man would you like to discuss? Read Ich Suchte Adam
Its still the best summary of how scientists ultimately discovered the fake that was foisted upon the public by a country lawyer, a minister, and an unscupulous museum director. The fact that standard science discovered that the bones were stained with bichromate, infused with ironstaining, and "glued together" wsnt a problem for science because once defrauded by Oakleys recentley introduced flourine dating the skull was busted, the public understood better how science is rally more self policing .It may take awhike but soon science catches the frauds)
Now-- As far as the Creationists, we have the
"Man skull in the Permian coals of Pa" (duh, they didnt even try to find a fossil that didnt have molluscan siphuncles)

Paluxey River footprints-(shows what a little faith in God and a helping hand with a hammer and chisel cand do to bring up the intended fossil that the creator really wanted)

Altamira cave "dinosaur", Turns out the "Cave painting of the dinosaur" was done with pigments containing Titanium Dioxide (a fairly recent pigment white, all natural TiO2 is red spinel and turns into red or black dusts)

Rubberoid casts of a fossil allosaur with a human skeleton in its fossil grip(what makes this funny is that the Creationists were just hanging tight until some grad students showed that it was hokum)

The expeditions to find NOAHS ARK-( Theyre still extorting money from gullible believers to mount new expeditions)

The "evidence stories from CREATION 05 at Liberty College) Shows that Fallwell is still a driving force in the "anti-science " movements that abound

Polonium "halos" proving tha granites were Yound earth phenomena. A promising Phd had published some hairbrained story about how the "halo" (polarized light birefringence features) prooved a young earth. The zircons showed the mictite melt was over 1BY old and the "halos" were actually burnt into the host rocks like a radiation burn (another big duuh).





Meaning no disrespect but , by chance, did you flunk your comps or your defense? You sound more bitter than an average Creationist. Your understanding of how textbooks are made is waay from the facts. There are texbooks of all persusions and it only takes a small group to OK a text version. Its not at all a conspiracy, otherwise the "Creationists View of the grand Canyon" wouldnt be in the National Park Bookshop

real lives continuing saga
What they are are gill arches. REad the entire sentences before you insert foot into bucchal cavity.
What Strickelberger has stated (and most everyone agrees, there is some recapitulation of embryonic features, but it has no phylogenetic significance)
Eg all embryonic stages have a "tail" , or baleen whale have embryonic"teeth' which are reabsorbed. These stages of embryonic structures, Mayr called "organizers' for ensuing developmental steps EG if the center line of the primitive digestive system in the blastula stage is cut in a mammal or a fish embryo, the notochord doesnt develop, and if that doesnt, neither does the vertebra. Thus the midline is "recapitulated "as a bauplan feature because its an organizer of later embryonic stages. Now whether you believe that all tetrapods who dwell on land DONT show gill arches in the early embryonic stages, well youve proven that your just a rookie thats treading water to catch up. (I wouldnt worry about using "small words", we can tell that English may be a second language for you).
What MAyr said is what patodog showed above (which you failed to absorb)
MAyr said
" The anlage (Anlagen) of the ancestral organ now serves as a somaticprogram for the ensuing development of the restructured organ....What is recapitulated are always particular structures (gill arches, tails, pronephra, midline stripe of the archentera ), but never the whole adult form of the ancestor.
I tried to present that in my two previous posyts in an attempt to be scientifically honest and complete. You, as usual, merely fail to comprehend and then try to dump on what some of the minds greater than you or I , have said previously on this very subjexct.
As I told you when you joined in, beware of the crap that Safarti spews, hes not a real bright guy and is more a market specialist for AIG.

Vestigial structures are the other side of the same coin that you try to dismiss. Again, Mayr has said that embryonic similarities, recapitulation (of specific embryonic organs) and vestigial structures--raise insurmountable difficulties for Creationism, but are fully compatible with an evolutionary explanation based upon common descent, variation, and natural selection" (MAyr 2001)

Love is what the individual and the nation must cultivate for evolution,progress. Love must transform all relationships - social, economic, educational, professional, family, religious and others. The father must love the child a little more intensely, the mother must spread more love, children must respect the servants. The sense of equality and the understanding that everyone is the repository of the divine essence must transmute social and individual behaviour. What the world needs today is the redeeming and unifying force of love - love which continually expands and embraces more and more people. By giving up narrow ideas regarding one's religion, nation or caste, by developing a broad outlook and cultivating the company of the good, you can elevate your 1ife and make it meaningful and satisfying.

It's entirely possible.

The Supreme Court could reverse previous decisions and new justices could interpret the first amendment differently than their predicessors.

Science education in the US could struggle with the chains of religion and politics for years, and developing countries could easily overtake our economic and eductional stature. But struggle is good. Much of the reason we are having this silly ID fight is because there is no immediate ugrency to improving our education system. That could change in the next few years, and the ID folks from the religious right could find themselves facing an angry mob of undereducated voters who want to know why their kids are being laughed out of interviews at high paying jobs.

c.i. and rosborne,

Polls regarding the teaching of creationism are often misleading. It depends on how the question is asked. Actually most parents do not want ID or creationism taught in science classes. They are willing, however, to allow creation or intelligent design to be taught in philosophy or comparative religion classes. I honestly believe that most parents want science to be taught as science and religion to be taught as religion. Most American parents take this simple and sensible approach to education.

Unfortunately, most people are only aware of what is in front of them, and the ID people are in everyone's face right now and making all the noise.

Unless the people who know better stand up and fight back hard, the herd could turn quickly and run right off the cliff.

wandeljw wrote:
c.i. and rosborne,

Polls regarding the teaching of creationism are often misleading. It depends on how the question is asked. Actually most parents do not want ID or creationism taught in science classes. They are willing, however, to allow creation or intelligent design to be taught in philosophy or comparative religion classes. I honestly believe that most parents want science to be taught as science and religion to be taught as religion. Most American parents take this simple and sensible approach to education.

rosborne wrote:
Unfortunately, most people are only aware of what is in front of them, and the ID people are in everyone's face right now and making all the noise.

Unless the people who know better stand up and fight back hard, the herd could turn quickly and run right off the cliff.

My comment: I agree with rosborne; my observation about our electorate during the last election used religion to win, and that's how people of religion think. Most do not understand evolution and are overwhelmed by religious thinking.

To rosborne: The educational system (under No Child Left Behind) is failing. In California, over 1,700 schools failed the federal benchmarks two years in a row that translates into the potential takeover of those schools by the government.

The education in the US is falling behind further each year, and we are probably at the bottom of industrialized countries in math and science.

Although the rank order of GDP by country still puts us in the number one slot, the European Union has the potential to overtake the US in a few years. China is not far behind at their growth rate of 8 percent vs the US 3.5 percent. Japan has fallen to forth place from second place, and Germany is now in sixth place from third.

Unless the US educational system improves for the children currently in school, we will fall further behind in technology and bio-tech where the economic future of the world lies - IMHO.

Instead, we are putting all our basket in Iraq and Afghanistan instead of our children's education and well-being. We will pay dearly for this misdirection of our resources.

The media, sometimes unintentionally, gives the false impression that there is actual science behind the claims of intelligent design. Public school science teachers are aware that intelligent design is not scientific. Science teachers are telling school boards that it is grossly misleading to give students the impression that intelligent design has equal standing with evolutionary theory. The media loves to report this as a debate. However, the public must realize that this is not a scientific debate but only a political one.

wand, I hate to say it, but religious people turn off their brains when it's a challenge between religion and everything else. That's the reality.

How can you say this with all the intelligent design science ministries?

For those interested in evolution:

In the current issue of Nature Conservancy, There's an interesting article about the caves of Tennessee. They have found cave animals that have evolved from surface-dwelling ancestors to survive in the darkness. Eyes are useless in pitch-black darkness, so they have evolved by adapting to their environment. Most cave insects and crustaceans have evolved long antennae and other senses. "Cave fish sense much tinier vibrations than do surface fish, allowing them to detect nearby predators or prey. They've also honed their sense of smell and taste to help find scarce food. Blind Mexican cave tetrs, for instance, have tasste buds that are 10,000 times more sensitive than those of their aboveground cousins."

The biggest concern for the scientists are the protection of Tennessee's cave creatures by protecting the cave ecosystems.

"The Rumble Room, near Spencer, Tenneessee, is the second-largest known cave room in the United States. A battle over a planned sewage facility that would have drained into the cave underscored the need to protect cave inhabitants and the wildlife they harbor."

farmerman, Have you heard of these caves of Tenneessee?

thunder,

You are honest in describing these as "ministries". However, there are religious people who see intelligent design not only as bad science but also as bad religion.

how can a religion be bad? Anyone's religion is as good as anyone else's. Catholic Protestant Muslim Sunni Shia Orthodox Judaism, Wicca, Ba'athai

they all make it up as they go along

a simple guide for Muslims to avoid praying at the wrong sort of mosque, which can be easily identified because it looks very similar to the right type.

http://answering-christianity.com/shia_mosques.htm

steve,

Some people believe "creationism" is bad religion because the bible was never intended to be used for making scientific assertions.

and how can anyone possibly know that?

Science "Ministries"?

I hope you were joking... otherwise this is just too pathetic.

thunder runner said. Intelligent Design is no more science than are Scientology or Christian SCience. TR have you even readd the tracts and the crap that is published in ID books and pamphlets. ? You may be surpridsed how much religion their stuff actually contains

ci. I helped in some cave excavating for Pleistocene fossils in the past. I know that Mammoth Caves is the biggest cave system in the US and as far as adaptive features like white cave crickets or eyeless fish, Ive never seen any but the crickets and large cave spiders that are like huge harvestman spiders. Those dudes are spooky. Ive heard that ALlegheny cave salamanders are alos white with vestigial eyes.

steve,

Theologians (at least in the Roman Catholic Church) have stated that bible verses should not be used to make scientific assertions. This is more a viewpoint than a matter of "knowing".

Cave stuff. Just for fun.