Voting abuse fix being worked on

@Sturgis,

Sturgis wrote:

It's sort of unknown what political views some in the games threads might have. They don't post anywhere else and their posts never bring up political leanings.

That's what I thought.

But since McGentrix wrote:

... a couple libs get their posts voted down ....

1 Reply

@oralloy,

Quote:

How about abuse where a group of liberals vote down all posts by a conservative no matter what they say (even in non-political threads)?

It wouldn't matter so much if posts with a -5 rating were hidden by default.

I am a liberal, but I think you are right about this issue. I have noticed some A2K conservatives having their post voted down on non-political and non-controversial topics. It does seems like it's primarily the conservative A2K members affected by this. You are correct that voting down non controversial and non political topics needs to stop. No one should be getting voted down on non political and non controversial topics. Some topics are purely just for fun. I also agree that posts should not disappear after being voted down to some specified level. I prefer that the post remains visible no matter how many times it gets voted down. I also wish that posts that I personally voted down would remain visible to me. The way it is set up now, the post will disappear and not be visible to me once I vote it down.

1 Reply

@Real Music,

Quote:

A2k is a family. We sometimes agree. We sometimes disagree. I enjoy the back and forth. So, yes please make it public.

No. Able2know is not a family. In a family everyone is accepted and differences in opinion are tolerated. That doesn't happen here. And, who is this "we" you are talking about? Does anyone consider Oralloy, or Baldimo, or I part of the "family"?

On Able2know people are divided into "the family" (people who have the correct opinions) and "the trolls" (people who don't conform). Whether or not you are in "the family" depends on whether you hold the correct set of opinions.

Dividing Able2know into "the family" and "trolls" based on opinion is the main problem here. As long as there are people who are on the outside, "family" is just another word for "in-crowd".

3 Replies

@Robert Gentel,

It's russian hackers.

1 Reply

@Doombus,

i think those guys are a little too busy to be worried about little old us...

0 Replies

@Walter Hinteler,

Walter Hinteler wrote:

Sturgis wrote:
It's sort of unknown what political views some in the games threads might have. They don't post anywhere else and their posts never bring up political leanings.
That's what I thought.

But since McGentrix wrote:
... a couple libs get their posts voted down ....

It's a shame that your inability to go beyond your literal interpretations necessitates more effort on my part than I am willing to spend. I have neither the time, nor the desire to spell out in exacting terms for your edification.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I wonder if I count as a nocous person in the distinction she is making (I suspect I do).

As if there was any more doubt:
per·se·cu·tion com·plex
noun
an irrational and obsessive feeling or fear that one is the object of collective hostility or ill-treatment on the part of others.

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@maxdancona,

Just to make it public Max; I voted this garbage down within milliseconds after reading this piece of internet dogshit.

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@Real Music,

Scroll all the way down and click on My Preferences. Under Topic Preferences, select No next to "Collapse Unpopular Topics:". Then click the Update Preferences button.

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@McGentrix,

McGentrix wrote:

I think it's amazing though that a couple libs get their posts voted down and the whole machine grinds to a halt and what, 3(?) separate threads were created about it?

Think you're conflating two different things: group think and a concerted attack on the site.

Group think makes people downvote everything they don't agree with, and even neutral or matter-of-fact posts if they're posted by people they don't agree with.

That's childish and dumb. There's a subset of people of every political conviction who does this, but since there are more people on the liberal than the conservative end of the political spectrum on this site, it's affected right-wingers more.

As long as no individual poster goes on a systematic, mass spree of downvoting, there also doesn't seem to be a whole lot anyone other than the people doing it can do about this, short of just abolishing the voting system.

Meanwhile, when somebody is cycling through countless alt accounts, using different IPs to obscure the trail, spending hour after hour just to mass downvote everything that comes into his/her sights, even word game posts, by the people s/he dislikes -- to the point where the other day there was a whole page where every single post had been collapsed because of downvotes....

That seems pretty clearly a different category of problem. One that can be tackled, as Robert showed, and should be.

3 Replies

@nimh,

nimh wrote:

Group think makes people downvote everything they don't agree with, and even neutral or matter-of-fact posts if they're posted by people they don't agree with.

I think that's more of a grudge than group-think. Group-think has nothing to do with a voting system.

0 Replies

@nimh,

Quote:

Group think makes people downvote everything they don't agree with, and even neutral or matter-of-fact posts if they're posted by people they don't agree with.

That's childish and dumb. There's a subset of people of every political conviction who does this, but since there are more people on the liberal than the conservative end of the political spectrum on this site, it's affected right-wingers more.

Hear hear. It is not just the downvoting, it is also the personal attacks that follow people with "unacceptable" opinions from thread to thread.

... and it is not just "right-wingers", there are opinions that would be considered center-left in most places that are considered "loathsome" here by the in crowd.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

... and it is not just "right-wingers", there are opinions that would be considered center-left in most places that are considered "loathsome" here by the in crowd.

What are some examples of this?

I'm often called a neo-liberal and have mostly more center policy positions than the Bernie Sanders crowd (except on immigration apparently) and I don't feel persecuted to any degree.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

There is political group think here, but this is nonsense. A bunch of people you consider to be part of the "family" openly dislike each other. Set already pointed out he holds no brief for Izzy and vice versa, for example. I can turn that into a triangle: Izzy has me on ignore, and I'm sure Set and I don't have much love for each other either. Et cetera.

Meanwhile, I kind of do think of Oralloy, for example, as part of the 'family', in the broad nebulous online sense that's inherent to the word's meaning when talking about an online forum. I think his views are almost always wrong and sometimes, frankly, insane; but he's been around forever; by and large argues in good faith and makes a conscious effort to abide by the community's rules; I've seen him step up sometimes to get other people to do so too, or to defuse conspiracy theories about the mods - in short, he's obviously invested to some extent in this site.

I'm not alone, either - I remember another time not long ago when you argued that the liberals here formed some kind of collective pod that considers all conservatives to be trolls, and people spoke up to say that they didn't consider eg Oralloy a troll, but your belief here seems to be immune to such contrary evidence.

2 Replies

@nimh,

nimh wrote:

Meanwhile, when somebody is cycling through countless alt accounts, using different IPs to obscure the trail, spending hour after hour just to mass downvote everything that comes into his/her sights, even word game posts, by the people s/he dislikes -- to the point where the other day there was a whole page where every single post had been collapsed because of downvotes....

That seems pretty clearly a different category of problem. One that can be tackled, as Robert showed, and should be.

It happened before though, but it was an attack on "conservative" posters. I don't recall the uproar then, I don't recall several threads being posted about it and I don't recall a hasty attempt to fix it, though it did eventually get fixed.

I remember a post by layman getting like 175 (don't remember exact number) down votes...

Don't get me wrong here, I am glad it was fixed and I agree that it needed to be. My only argument in this race is the response.

1 Reply

@nimh,

Oralloy has some good views like the rest of the udience. He just has one or two really self absorbed ones and cant think both sides of the issue.

The guys like pinky or gunga are, Im beginning to think , are just mindless bots on duty to the GRU. They deserve thumbing down (if this tool must remain). I dont ignore or thumb because theyre so much fun to read.

Ive only thumbed about 10 times these last 20 years and its been only IONUS and FRANK APIZZA (whove been gone for several years now). They would start sanely and then descend into the realm of depression and fantasy. Course , Frank was a one trick pony whom you could just pass over ifn you werent in a testy mood.

0 Replies

@nimh,

I am not suggesting a conspiracy theory, or a conscious plot. I am suggesting that the social dynamics on Able2know lead to a prominent group exerting social pressure to prevent certain opinions from being expressed.

- Try to suggest that abortion, or even just late stage abortions, should be regulated.
- Try to suggest that free speech should be protected on campus for people considered offensive by liberal groups.
- Try to suggest that due process should be guaranteed for people accused of rape, or question the number of rapes on campuses.
- Try to suggest that there is a conflict between religious liberty and support for same sex marriage.

All of these are current topics with opinions being held on either side by moderates, respected academics and scientists. On any open forum, people should be free to discuss more than one point of view on these issues. On Able2know, any of these opinions are impossible to discuss in any rational way. It is very difficult to discuss the pros and cons of these positions, and the often complex facts on either side of these complex issues.

The Able2know "family" is labeling anyone with unacceptable positions as a "moron", a "rape apologist", and a misogynist who "wants to enslave women". Any discussion on who is a "troll" is based on the opinions they express, not on their behavior.

In a open discussion, controversial issues can be discussed respectfully with room for more than one point of view. People can disagree strongly without personal attacks. In a closed community, unacceptable opinions aren't discussed, instead the people who hold them are labeled and attacked.

Those of us who are willing to take these unpopular opinions (in spite of the fact that they aren't really extreme) understand the social pressure to conform that is put on anyone who takes the wrong point of view.

I have no problem with people disagreeing on a belief, or facts or anything else. That is what it means to have an open discussion forum. If you are helping to open up the community to different perspectives... I salute you. There is a significant group of people who are actively trying to shut down discussion of any point of view that they deem to be unacceptable. That is the problem.

3 Replies

@maxdancona,

I disagree, Max. No one has prevented you from expressing your views. In fact, there's about 14 pages of it on the one abortion thread.

1 Reply

@neptuneblue,

neptuneblue wrote:

I disagree, Max. No one has prevented you from expressing your views. In fact, there's about 14 pages of it on the one abortion thread.

I agree with you neptuneblue; I hope that you did not put any social-pressure on me to do that.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

maxdancona wrote:

I am not suggesting a conspiracy theory, or a conscious plot. I am suggesting that the social dynamics on Able2know lead to a prominent group exerting social pressure to prevent certain opinions from being expressed.

- Try to suggest that abortion, or even just late stage abortions, should be regulated.
- Try to suggest that free speech should be protected on campus for people considered offensive by liberal groups.
- Try to suggest that due process should be guaranteed for people accused of rape, or question the number of rapes on campuses.
- Try to suggest that there is a conflict between religious liberty and support for same sex marriage.

No one has prevented you from expressing any opinions. Who is this prominent group? Can you name everyone you think is involved? Is this like the deep state or the Illuminati?

Quote:

All of these are current topics with opinions being held on either side by moderates, respected academics and scientists. On any open forum, people should be free to discuss more than one point of view on these issues. On Able2know, any of these opinions are impossible to discuss in any rational way. It is very difficult to discuss the pros and cons of these positions, and the often complex facts on either side of these complex issues.

I engaged yesterday with a poster (CoasterRat, I think) on a controversial topic and it was very respectful and rational. I don't think I'd have any problem at all engaging in the topics you discussed in a rational, respectful way. You simply need to ignore the parts that seem to cause you such intense discomfort.

Quote:

The Able2know "family" is labeling anyone with unacceptable positions as a "moron", a "rape apologist", and a misogynist who "wants to enslave women". Any discussion on who is a "troll" is based on the opinions they express, not on their behavior.

We all have many labels Max. Some of them earned. Some of them unearned. Toughen up; it's the internet.

Quote:

In a open discussion, controversial issues can be discussed respectfully with room for more than one point of view. People can disagree strongly without personal attacks. In a closed community, unacceptable opinions aren't discussed, instead the people who hold them are labeled and attacked.

This is the internet. Find me one free-public-forum with more than 20 active members that behaves like you're suggesting and I'll sign over my car to you. Crazy that despite the way you are unable to discuss your opinions, we all still know your opinion. Sounds like an open community to me where ideas are shared freely.

Quote:

Those of us who are willing to take these unpopular opinions (in spite of the fact that they aren't really extreme) understand the social pressure to conform that is put on anyone who takes the wrong point of view.

Are your values so weak that you feel like you'd conform based on someone disagreeing with you or calling you a name? I could see a rational argument changing someones mind, but being labeled as a misogynist is enough to get you to change your position? You may not be cut out for the internet.

Quote:

I have no problem with people disagreeing on a belief, or facts or anything else. That is what it means to have an open discussion forum. If you are helping to open up the community to different perspectives... I salute you. There is a significant group of people who are actively trying to shut down discussion of any point of view that they deem to be unacceptable. That is the problem.

Nope; doesn't happen. They can label you, but they can't shut you down.

There's no problem, except the one that you're creating in your head. Check my sig line.

0 Replies

Voting abuse fix being worked on

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