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Police tazer handcuffed 13-year-old girl. Twice.

 
 
DrewDad
 
Reply Fri 4 Mar, 2005 11:34 am
Jacksonville officer investigated for using stun gun on teen

State Attorney Harry Shorstein said Wednesday that excessive force may have been used by police officers who used a stun gun on a 13-year-old girl who was being uncooperative after they took her into custody for fighting with her mother.

The 65-pound girl was handcuffed in the back of a patrol car Feb. 7 when she was shocked twice with a 50,000-volt Taser, according to a Sheriff's Office report. Police departments in Florida and nationwide have been criticized for their use of Taser guns, which some say have caused deaths.

Shorstein said he met with Sheriff John Rutherford and Undersheriff Frank Mackesy, who assured him an internal investigation was being conducted.

"I expressed my concern. They were generally defending the use of Tasers, even against smaller children," the prosecutor said.

"It's not the age, but the size of the child and the fact that she was handcuffed," Shorstein said.

Shorstein said an assistant state attorney called the case to his attention and thought it was a questionable use of a Taser.

The child was originally charged with domestic battery, but the charges were later dismissed.

"We did not think it was an appropriate case to prosecute," he said.

According to the police report, officers were called to a Jacksonville apartment complex after the girl struck her mother in the nose and kicked her in the face.

The girl was handcuffed and placed into a patrol car, but she managed to slide her cuffed arms to the front of her. Police said the refused requests to put her arms behind her back and began kicking and screaming.

An officer attempted to subdue the girl with a neck lock, but was unable to get control of her.

Officer G.A. Nelson then used his Taser on her. When she continued to fight, and she was stunned again, according to the police report. She then complied and placed her arms behind her back.

The action occurred two weeks before Rutherford announced a moratorium on use of Tasers by his department.

Mackesy said the technique used on the girl - putting the Taser directly against the body - was vastly different from the common shooting of barbs into someone.

"It's a localized application that doesn't seize the body. It only hurts the area where you put it."

Mackesy said an internal police investigation is not complete.

"The reason I did this is because of the age and size of the suspect. Just because she was small does not mean she was frail," he said.

The girl's mother told police she had called police because she was afraid the girl was run away and hoped to get medical attention for the girl.

The Sheriff's Office, which has spent $1.8 million for the Tasers, suspended their use Feb. 22, until officers are given more training.

Taser Inc. says its guns are a non-lethal alternative to shooting dangerous suspects. But about 100 people have died nationally since 1999 after being shocked with a Taser, including recent deaths in Pensacola, Hollywood, Naples and Delray Beach. Many of those who died were drug users.
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AngstRiddenGuy
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 05:17 pm
Officer G.A. Nelson then used his Taser on her. When she continued to fight, and she was stunned again, according to the police report. She then complied and placed her arms behind her back.


- so the device worked. whats the problem?
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 06:21 pm
Um... She only weighed 65 pounds?

You'd think maybe the police could subdue a 65-pound teenage girl who's handcuffed.

Quote:
"It's not the age, but the size of the child and the fact that she was handcuffed," Shorstein said.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 08:00 pm
Quote:
According to the police report, officers were called to a Jacksonville apartment complex after the girl struck her mother in the nose and kicked her in the face.

The girl was handcuffed and placed into a patrol car, but she managed to slide her cuffed arms to the front of her. Police said the refused requests to put her arms behind her back and began kicking and screaming.

An officer attempted to subdue the girl with a neck lock, but was unable to get control of her.


What alternative did they have?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 08:09 pm
I would assume the officers in question carry 9mm for just such purposes. No point in overkill.
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roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 09:17 pm


So, as I read this, the subject is tortured into confessing, submitting, or whatever else is needed. Still, like Rodney King, she was in handcuffs.
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 5 Mar, 2005 10:58 pm
Sorry. I don't care how uncooperative a 65 lb child is, if police officers cannot subdue her in the back of a squad car, they need to be replaced.
0 Replies
 
AngstRiddenGuy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 09:15 am
eoe wrote:
Sorry. I don't care how uncooperative a 65 lb child is, if police officers cannot subdue her in the back of a squad car, they need to be replaced.



I think they did the right thing. OBVIOUSLY - she couldnt be controlled and continued to resist and endanger the police - would you have preferred she get a nightstick to the skull?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 09:21 am
Given the number of adults who have now been killed by the use of tazers, it's simply stupid to even think of using one against a child.

65 pounds. Lie down on top of her. That'll slow her down.




Endanger police? Rolling Eyes
0 Replies
 
AngstRiddenGuy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 09:25 am
ehBeth wrote:
Given the number of adults who have now been killed by the use of tazers, it's simply stupid to even think of using one against a child.

65 pounds. Lie down on top of her. That'll slow her down.




Endanger police? Rolling Eyes


Yes, endanger the police. of course, you dont care about that. Shocked
0 Replies
 
sublime1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 09:48 am
eoe wrote:
Sorry. I don't care how uncooperative a 65 lb child is, if police officers cannot subdue her in the back of a squad car, they need to be replaced.


My thoughts exactly. If multiple officers cannot subdue a 65 pound girl without the use of a taser they should not be on the street.
0 Replies
 
AngstRiddenGuy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 09:50 am
sublime1 wrote:
eoe wrote:
Sorry. I don't care how uncooperative a 65 lb child is, if police officers cannot subdue her in the back of a squad car, they need to be replaced.


My thoughts exactly. If multiple officers cannot subdue a 65 pound girl without the use of a taser they should not be on the street.



you miss the point. the taser was effective.
0 Replies
 
sublime1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 09:53 am
but possibly deadly, shooting her would have been effective also.
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AngstRiddenGuy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 10:06 am
sublime1 wrote:
but possibly deadly, shooting her would have been effective also.



so youre telling me youd rather have the cops have only the opttion of sticks and guns? yeah thatd play out REAL well on TV.
0 Replies
 
sublime1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 10:13 am
AngstRiddenGuy wrote:
sublime1 wrote:
but possibly deadly, shooting her would have been effective also.



so youre telling me youd rather have the cops have only the opttion of sticks and guns? yeah thatd play out REAL well on TV.


Show me where I said that.

Tasers have their use but in this instance it was uncalled for.
0 Replies
 
AngstRiddenGuy
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 10:16 am
and I disagree. Had she ran off handcuffed, lost balance and further injured herself, the dept would be liable. she was subdued by some electricity. she's going to survive.
0 Replies
 
sublime1
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 10:20 am
Welcome to A2K your going to have fun here.
0 Replies
 
eoe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 12:40 pm
Last year, there was panic in a crowded nightclub in Chicago that resulted in some people killed and several injured. It all started when two women began fighting. One bouncer chose not to get physical but to use pepper spray to subdue them, which created the panic once the spray hit the crowd, resulting in the stampede. A friend of mine, a bouncer in another club there, called him a punk and said it pretty simply. "Any bouncer worth his weight should be able to take down a woman without the use of anything other than his own body."
Same with these officers. They're useless if 65 lbs. is too much for them to handle.

You miss the point, Angst. The ONLY reaon this is news is because cops resorting to the use a stun gun on a child is so outrageous.
0 Replies
 
tommrr
 
  1  
Reply Sun 6 Mar, 2005 01:41 pm
So, let me get this right...One 65 lb child that is out of control against a minimum of 2 full grown adult police officers, that are trained in methods of subduing full grown, out of control adults, could find no other way to settle her down, than to hit her with a Tazer?
IF they are feeling threatened enough to use this on her, wouldn't then they be threatened by someone their own size enough to just shoot them?
I agree, yes that the Tazer worked, but it was excessive. Grab her arms and legs and just hang on until she stops.
0 Replies
 
g day
 
  1  
Reply Sat 12 Mar, 2005 07:42 pm
Personally I think the police should be issued with Panzers to defend themselves against unruly, handcuffed, 65 pound girls - it's a dangerous world out there and their safety is paramount!
0 Replies
 
 

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