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Men wander and women want a single partner....NOT

 
 
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 02:19 pm
I posted most of this on another forum, but it really belongs here. Let's start a little discussion....and yes, I guess I do intend to "stir up trouble," and maybe make people think about their assumptions.

Here's my original post:
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I hear a LOT that it's to men's evolutionary advantage, and it's their nature, to sleep around as much as possible, while women generally seek a single partner who offers security & protection.

I disagree with this whole premise. I think it's just as much an evolutionary advantage for women to seek multiple partners as men...for the obvious reason that, the more men a woman sleeps with, the more likely it is that ONE of them will believe he's the father. Having a dozen "fathers" for one child will offer a great deal more protection than having one.

I often think matriarchal societies supported & lived by this premise. Until very recently, it could never be known who the father was....only the mother could be known for sure. Thus it was (and is) to a female's advantage to have as many males as possible hanging about thinking "this child could be mine....'
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(End of original post)

A few more thoughts on the matter....There are many different types of sperm in one ejaculate, depending on the circumstances. In some circumstances, most of the sperm are "killers," meaning they attack & destroy the sperm of other males. Obviously, this never would have evolved if women were as desirous of one mate as males like to think.

Another thought is the difference in the way men and women orgasm....women typically take longer than men. Has anyone ever wondered why? After all, women are not built just to be NOT satisfied, as she's more likely to be impregnated if she orgasms....yet, her male is done in moments. What does she do? Pushes him off and calls over his sleeping form, "NEXT!"

Thus the "gang bang" is, a believe, a FEMALE invention, not a male one.

I believe the whole premise that men wander and women want a single partner is made up to make men feel they are at some advantage. After all, if your reproductive organs are out there dangling in the breeze just waiting for someone to lop them off, who can blame you for wanting to feel more secure?

(Teehee!)
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 02:48 pm
I cringe at the "gang bang" part -- I always think of it in terms of coercion/ rape -- but I think I agree with your basic premise.

Sperm can stay alive inside the woman for I think days at a time, so I think it would be more about sequential lovers (one this night, one the next morning, one the next afternoon) than some sort of group scenario.

That also goes towards letting any given man think he is the father -- works best if he thinks he's the only POSSIBLE father. Again wouldn't be a group sort of situation.
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BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 03:04 pm
Yes, I believe the term "gang bang" refers to an unwilling female, by definition. An unfortunate choice of words on my part....still I believe once a woman has sex with one male, she is a great deal more open to sex with other males, Right Now. I did know about the sperm living several days thing...but it's a lot easier to imagine a series of partners within hours rather than days, simply because, by the next day, she's thinking of other things.

I just think the premise of "men wander, women seek security" is skewed. It seems to highlight differences that do not, in my mind, exist between the sexes. Perhaps it is no more skewed than any other generalization about what men & women want in relationships.
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 03:11 pm
That I'll give you wholeheartedly -- there is infinite variety, and even if there are trends by category, it doesn't mean that everyone in that category follows that trend.

Women's libido goes up around ovulation but not just at the moment they ovulate, I doubt if she's interested one day she'd be uninterested the next.
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JPB
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 03:15 pm
warning: thread hijack... I swear this is true!

sperm can live for up to 72 hours within the vagina. As in life, female sperm tend to live longer than male sperm. As in life, male sperm tend to swim faster than female sperm. If a woman wants to deliver a female child, and she has a regular menstrual cycle, she can stop having intercourse a few days before she is due to ovulate and have a high probability of having only female sperm available to fertilize the egg. If she uses an ovulation predictor that tells her she has just ovulated and then has intercourse she will have a high probability of having a male child. Worked for me both times and I know of a number of cases where it's worked in both directions.

Ok, you can have your thread back now.
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Synonymph
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 03:51 pm
And then there's oxytocin. Ocytoxin. Oxycontin.
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 04:01 pm
One thing though, is a male could impregnate multiple women in a year, while a woman can only have one child...which is part of that original theory that men are wired to sleep around and women are wired to find the strong, protective provider.

Either way, people are whores in general.
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 04:04 pm
Re: Men wander and women want a single partner....NOT
BorisKitten wrote:
I disagree with this whole premise. I think it's just as much an evolutionary advantage for women to seek multiple partners as men...for the obvious reason that, the more men a woman sleeps with, the more likely it is that ONE of them will believe he's the father. Having a dozen "fathers" for one child will offer a great deal more protection than having one.

Plus, if you're talking this gene-evolutionary-race argument, it is evolutionary in the woman's best interest to get the highest-quality sperm around to create the healthiest children - so it pays off to sleep (shop) around so as to find (or at least get to include) the top specimens - rather than just hanging around the first guy you get with, whatever his gene pool quality.

I read something about this research once ... not a clue where/when, so forget about a link ... it suggested something along the same lines. They measured what women were attracted to, over a longer period of time. It turned out that women gave diverging answers to questions about which men they felt most attracted to (dunno whether it was done with images or, say, live specimens or whatever) - depending on where they were in their cycle.

Not something they were aware of themselves, at all, obviously, but it turned out that, like, around ovulation time, they were more likely to pick the butch type of macho man as most attractive, while midway between ovulations they opted for the softer, gentler type. The hypothesis I believe was that the latter instinct was to ensure that they would choose someone as a steady partner who was reasonably more likely to show caring and commitment for the child, while the former instinct would have them go out to sleep with - and be actually impregnated by - the most physically/genetically healthier alternatives. So you get the fittest child, with the most caring father. Something like that. Hey, like BK said, who was to know?
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BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 04:07 pm
Slappy Doo Hoo wrote:
One thing though, is a male could impregnate multiple women in a year, while a woman can only have one child...which is part of that original theory that men are wired to sleep around and women are wired to find the strong, protective provider.

Either way, people are whores in general.


Yes, I agree this is where the belief about men/women and what they seek originated....but I don't think the belief reflects reality.

I most definitely agree that "people are whores in general," if by that you mean we all want multiple partners.

Frankly I see little difference in the number of women who seek many men VS the number of men who seek many women. And to bring up the obvious: if guys are all sleeping around, who are they sleeping WITH?
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Slappy Doo Hoo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 04:10 pm
Let's not forget that women aren't wired to sleep with as many men, because it's in their genetics to spend time in the kitchen baking pies, and also doing laundry.

BK, women sleep around just as much as men..well you've got people that like to sleep around a lot, and people that don't, both genders.

The males who sleep around are called "alpha males," or "studs" and the females are called "cum dumpsters," or "sluts."
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sozobe
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 04:11 pm
I can see how it was in women's best interest to propagate the belief that they don't sleep around. I remember reading the stuff nimh refers to, also. So if a woman is going to keep that nice provider, that nice provider has to think he's the dad. And if he knows that the woman had a go-round with a few different big strong alpha-gened types about when the kid was conceived, he's less likely to stay.

So, she has the go-rounds with the few different big strong alpha-gened types, but keeps quiet about it.
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BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 04:18 pm
sozobe wrote:
I can see how it was in women's best interest to propagate the belief that they don't sleep around. I remember reading the stuff nimh refers to, also. So if a woman is going to keep that nice provider, that nice provider has to think he's the dad. And if he knows that the woman had a go-round with a few different big strong alpha-gened types about when the kid was conceived, he's less likely to stay.

So, she has the go-rounds with the few different big strong alpha-gened types, but keeps quiet about it.


I never thought of this, Sozobe, but I can certainly see the advantages!

I think what I don't like about the idea is its use an excuse for male infidelity....."It's just his nature..." IMO, no more his nature than hers!
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 04:20 pm
BorisKitten wrote:
What does she do? Pushes him off and calls over his sleeping form, "NEXT!


That particular quotation jarred my memory regarding an incident that I was involved in many years ago.

Huge party. Thousands of kids, loud music, kegs of beer. I walked over behind a grove of trees to take a leak and saw a long line of guys, beers in hand.

"Hey, Gus", shouted Harry Pizquali, "Get in line!"

I walked up to Harry and asked what was going on. "Look to the front of the line, Gus."

I looked up the serpentining line and saw movement at the beginning, some three hundred yards away. Frantic movements.

"What is it?", I asked.

"Penelope Bilgers", replied Harry. "She's screwing the party."

I sat in line for 4 hours. By the time I finally arrived to the coveted spot all that remained was a puddle and a few locks of Penelope's hair.

She had been screwed out of existence.

I took off my hat and said a little prayer. I had always liked that girl.
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BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 04:23 pm
Re: Men wander and women want a single partner....NOT
nimh wrote:
Not something they were aware of themselves, at all, obviously, but it turned out that, like, around ovulation time, they were more likely to pick the butch type of macho man as most attractive, while midway between ovulations they opted for the softer, gentler type. The hypothesis I believe was that the latter instinct was to ensure that they would choose someone as a steady partner who was reasonably more likely to show caring and commitment for the child, while the former instinct would have them go out to sleep with - and be actually impregnated by - the most physically/genetically healthier alternatives. So you get the fittest child, with the most caring father. Something like that. Hey, like BK said, who was to know?


Never knew this, nimh, but it certainly fits with what I see "about town." I love learning new things!
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BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 04:26 pm
Hi Gus!

Actually I tried to think up a term for this "Line-em-up" strategy, other than "gang bang," which implies a female's unwillingness, or "slut," which implies it happens over a longer period of time.

Couldn't think of one.
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 04:28 pm
How about "Young lady's row of sticks"
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 04:29 pm
Nah, that doesn't sound right. Let me think on this.
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 04:30 pm
I wonder if Black Widow spiders have gang bangs. Bunch of headless guys piled up in front of an engorged female spider.

I wonder how many spider heads a female could eat before she started throwing up?
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gustavratzenhofer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 04:31 pm
I'll be taking over this thread now.
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BorisKitten
 
  1  
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 04:33 pm
Slappy, I can't believe you actually posted to a "sex" thread without using the words "Hot Monkey Sex!" You must be slipping.

And yes, all the terms for women seeking many men are negative, the terms for men doing the same are positive. It's hard to understand why males condemn the very thing they seem to want in females. Any theories, anyone?
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