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Greek to English please help

 
 
Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 07:13 am
Hello,
I am looking for a LITERAL translation of one of the verses from the greek text of "Our Father", Matthew 6:13. Found it variously as "kae(kai) me esenegkes(eseinenkes) hemas eis peirasmon". I am not looking for a "pretty" translation, but more for the individual words - I am finding so many discrepancies between different Bibles... And it seems like the verb" Lead" (us int temptation) isn't really there.Thank you so much for your time - appreciate all the answer and, as always, am in awe of your knowledge.
Cathy Shocked
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HofT
 
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Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 08:31 am
This is the exact transliteration of the Greek text:

"kai me eisenegkes hemas eis peirasmon"

The verb is the 3rd word; usually translated as "lead" it can also mean "introduce" or "bring into" temptation. Literally the translation is:

"and [do] not lead us into temptation"

N.B. the "do" is included in the original Greek verb but must be added as a separate word in English.

Finally, "temptation" is the usual translation for "peirasmos" but it can also mean "trouble" or "difficult times".

To sum up: the literal translation could just as well read "and don't bring us to times of trouble"
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George
 
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Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 03:35 pm
Nice one, HofT. My understanding is that the original text was supposed to have the sense of "do not put us to the test". Does that square with your reading?

BTW, how did you come by your Greek?
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ladybirdbrain
 
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Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 07:33 pm
htank you, George
Thanks so much... I love to study New Testament a bit - just always seemed to me unusual that God would lead someone into a tempting situation. I thought maybe it's more like He would keep us or protect in a moment of temptation. The greek translations are fom two sites: www.thenazareneway.com , and www.bibletexts.com. I do not know any Greek (yet!). You wouldn't happen to be fluent in Aramaic, would you? Laughing Bless your linguistic generosity!!!
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ladybirdbrain
 
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Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 07:35 pm
Thank you, George and HofT
Sorry, this is the complete posting again. I have finger dyslexia!! Thanks so much to both of you. I love to study New Testament a bit - just always seemed to me unusual that God would lead someone into a tempting situation. I thought maybe it's more like He would keep us or protect in a moment of temptation. The greek translations are fom two sites: www.thenazareneway.com , and www.bibletexts.com. I do not know any Greek (yet!). You wouldn't happen to be fluent in Aramaic, would you? Laughing Bless your linguistic generosity!!!
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HofT
 
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Reply Wed 23 Feb, 2005 09:44 pm
George - my Greek covers the thousand years from Homer to Polybius, who wrote in Roman times as you know, so timewise Matthew is borderline for me as the language changed a great deal in the next 2,000 years until the present day. You can find links to the ancient texts I posted on another thread >
http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=29685&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0&sid=633103b37c753e6a72ee1352b0bbd66c >
where someone btw confronted me with a modern Greek text that took me forever to figure out!

As to your question "and do not introduce us to times of trial" would still be a literal translation as noted above.

Ladybirdbrain - sorry I have no Aramaic, and only acquired ancient Greek by mistake, being very young at the time and thinking that because I know the alphabet from mathematics it would be easy to read the pre-Socratic philosophers with some modest effort. Ha! Many years later I realized how hard it was, but by then I had learned.

George - always good to see you and sorry if I don't respond here very often. Can always be reached via my yahoo account, still in my original online name N34_W118. Hope you and family are all well.
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