RexRed
 
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 12:58 pm
I really don't personally care either way about marriage. I am perfectly happy being unmarried and I cannot even understand how having a piece of paper can somehow vindicate my love toward another human being. I see marriage as only a divisive element in our country.

Hitler used marriage to steal peoples children and make them into soldiers.

I cannot see why in a free society that we need to separate the sexes and decide what is accepted by "God"... It was Paul in the Bible that says, "now, there is neither male nor female"... 2000 years later there is not only male and female but gay and straight and "others" too... there are the disabled people and "poor" people... are these those that do not match up with the holy blood of the "new world order"?

Why does God accept that a child can be born with one testicle and one ovary and with "unique" genitalia and when they test the blood they find that they have both xy and xx chromosomes. The doctor stands back baffled and and the parents want to know what sex the baby is... God finds it acceptable to allow a child to be born into this world this way, God must also find it acceptable that this child have the freedom to love and express themselves in a manner that is mirrored by their own true feelings.

Marriage is a tool of governments but has little or nothing to do with Christianity and the God of the Bible. God is in the love part of marriage not the social symbol it carries today. Nowhere in the entire Christian Bible is there a single mention of a marriage ceremonies rituals and how they are carried out. The Bible is completely silent on how an ancient marriage is preformed. So, what do we have today? A caste system where people who are involved get certain breaks from the government and entitlements that the average Joe pays for. This is not freedom this is a club for rich rednecks.

Peace with God
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 4,885 • Replies: 89
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McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 02:21 pm
If I understand you correctly, RexRed, you are saying that because it's you do not wish to marry, you cannot understand why anyone would?

Marriage is a sacrament in Catholicism, a Christian religion. So when you say "Marriage is a tool of governments but has little or nothing to do with Christianity and the God of the Bible." I think you are not understanding what the bible is teaching.
0 Replies
 
duce
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 02:24 pm
Christian Bible is there a single mention of a marriage ceremonies rituals and how they are carried out.


There is that Water to Wine instance, in case you were interested.
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 02:25 pm
McG, I can't get past your avatar.... Laughing
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duce
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 02:29 pm
Beautiful Hands--dont' you think?
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Bella Dea
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 02:33 pm
yes....I love the nail polish.
0 Replies
 
duce
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 03:16 pm
This is not freedom this is a club for rich rednecks.

Wonder how I got in? I'm a dirt poor redneck.
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 04:03 pm
McGentrix wrote:
If I understand you correctly, RexRed, you are saying that because it's you do not wish to marry, you cannot understand why anyone would?

Marriage is a sacrament in Catholicism, a Christian religion. So when you say "Marriage is a tool of governments but has little or nothing to do with Christianity and the God of the Bible." I think you are not understanding what the bible is teaching.


I am not against marriage but I am against the government and the church dictating what it is... marriage is God given... and not given by the state or by the church. By two consenting adults, it is a private and sacred union between two people "alone"....

Do you have a joystick for some games... Smile
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RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 04:08 pm
duce wrote:
Christian Bible is there a single mention of a marriage ceremonies rituals and how they are carried out.


There is that Water to Wine instance, in case you were interested.


Are you inferring that Jesus was instituting a marriage ritual by turning water into wine?
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 04:13 pm
RexReed:

I agree. Marriage should be what we, as individuals, make of it. The government has absolutely NO right to legislate who can and cannot get married.

I have a different take on the bible, though, in that I believe it mearly tells a great story, but nothing more. Our understanding of the world several thousand years ago would be almost impossible to imagine in today's world. Our innate fear of the world back then, and how we came to explain it in the bible, was completely void of science and logic.

But today, marriage is being used by the neoconservatives to rally the religious right and keep them in their court, and they are preying on their misguided faith in order to further their agenda.
0 Replies
 
duce
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 04:24 pm
Are you inferring that Jesus was instituting a marriage ritual by turning water into wine?

No, but I thought it noteworthly that He did attend the ceremony and that it was something worth celebrating.
0 Replies
 
RexRed
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 04:34 pm
Dookiestix wrote:
RexReed:

I agree. Marriage should be what we, as individuals, make of it. The government has absolutely NO right to legislate who can and cannot get married.

I have a different take on the bible, though, in that I believe it mearly tells a great story, but nothing more. Our understanding of the world several thousand years ago would be almost impossible to imagine in today's world. Our innate fear of the world back then, and how we came to explain it in the bible, was completely void of science and logic.

But today, marriage is being used by the neoconservatives to rally the religious right and keep them in their court, and they are preying on their misguided faith in order to further their agenda.


We agree but on different levels. The government cannot legislate love... They may think they can, they may think their piece of paper is all you need. But if that was the case there would be no divorce. The Bible is a book of liberty, faith, charity and many other values. The government is not going to stop you from cheating on your spouse they are only going to penalize you. The only thing that can keep two people faithful is true love.

So what is the license for? People are having sex outside of marriage anyway... They live together for years? Is it giving your kids the fathers name? You can do that too also I believe even if you are not married. Is it having the blessing of the government? Does the government have the ability to confer the blessings of God when the government is suppose to be impartial on religious matters?

As a christian, do I really need the endorsement of a non religious government entity to validate the way I feel toward another consenting adult citizen? What can the government possibly add to the way I feel? It is not that I do not love my government but my government is not a religious entity where love to me is spiritual matter.
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 05:00 pm
RexRed wrote:
The government cannot legislate love... They may think they can, they may think their piece of paper is all you need. But if that was the case there would be no divorce.


You have your history a little backwards though. Up until 200 or so years ago marriage had little, if anything, to do with love. Marriage was a contractual situation and had nothing to do with romance. To some extent that is why you see different attitudes towards marriage in Europe. Marriage is what was done to protect (or enhance) one's wealth. "Love" is what you had a mistress for.

Quote:
So what is the license for? People are having sex outside of marriage anyway... They live together for years? Is it giving your kids the fathers name? You can do that too also I believe even if you are not married. Is it having the blessing of the government? Does the government have the ability to confer the blessings of God when the government is suppose to be impartial on religious matters?


The license is to protect your assets and enable a host of other government benefits and entitlements. It has nothing to do with anything spiritual or any blessing.

Quote:
As a christian, do I really need the endorsement of a non religious government entity to validate the way I feel toward another consenting adult citizen?


Nope! You sure don't. Should you die however the object of your everlasting love coud find themselves tossed out on the street and penniless though. Your religious entity does nothing to protect any marital assets and their feelings toward you might not be so loving at that point.

Your concept of marriage based on love is quaint but relatively new. Marriage existed as a government and religious institution long before romance had anything to do with it.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Thu 17 Feb, 2005 10:46 pm
Quote:
Marriage was a contractual situation and had nothing to do with romance.


Oh, I imagine it had something to do with it; romance can lead to marriage, or form from it.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
duce
 
  1  
Reply Fri 18 Feb, 2005 09:10 am
So what is the license for? People are having sex outside of marriage anyway... They live together for years?

Maybe Blue Cross/Blue Shield runs the govt.
Ever try to get your boyfriend on family coverage.
0 Replies
 
theantibuddha
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Feb, 2005 08:25 am
Ah... gay marriage. Wonderful issue <shudders>.

Let's say gay marriage becomes legal. Wham, suddenly marriage is a perfect and fair institution that accepts everyone?

Nope. What about polyamourists. I know a triple who live together (kind of like a couple but with one more). These three guys are very much in love, each of them loving the other two and working together just as well as a couple would. They wouldn't be able to marry if gay marriage became permitted.

I think that there comes a point where we should forget about societal acceptance of our family situations and simply accept that to these people their relationship is important even if it doesn't fit into our conceptions of such.

There's too much judging.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2005 03:30 pm
theantibuddha wrote:
Ah... gay marriage. Wonderful issue <shudders>.

Let's say gay marriage becomes legal.


Let's say ...

Quote:
California Law Banning Gay Marriages Is Struck Down (Update1)
March 14 (Bloomberg) -- A California judge struck down the state's laws banning gay weddings, saying that measures defining marriage as between a man and a woman are unconstitutional.

Superior Court Judge Richard Kramer's ruling, pending appeals, would make California the second state in the U.S. to legalize gay marriages after Massachusetts. San Francisco, which conducted about 4,000 same-sex weddings last year, claimed the laws violated the rights of gays and lesbians.

``Same-sex marriage cannot be prohibited solely because California has always done so before,'' Kramer said in a 27-page tentative ruling released today in San Francisco.


link


ok
that's enough
once in relationships/marriage thread on gay marriage
once in legal thread on gay marriage
and once in politics thread on gay marriage

apparently a popular topic Cool
0 Replies
 
the prince
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2005 03:31 pm
Looks like ehbeth is suffering from "the prince effect" Laughing
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2005 03:33 pm
so you want me to post about the 4 gay Israeli couples who came to Tranna on the weekend to get married?
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Mon 14 Mar, 2005 03:37 pm
well, ok
cuz you begged Laughing


cbc link

chicago sun times link

Quote:
Rabbi David Lazar, of the conservative Tiferet Shalom synagogue in Tel Aviv, offered prayers in Hebrew after each couple said their vows. ''You will do a ceremony with me in Tel Aviv under the chupah one day,'' Lazar told one couple after they were married, referring to the traditional canopy of Jewish weddings. ''We'll make sure that others continue to come here until we change the system.''



Yippee!
0 Replies
 
 

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