Adam and Eve were set up in a classic sting operation. In modern times it would be considered entrapment.
Another way to look at the problem of evil in the world is to ask what the word "omnipotent" actually means. Does it mean having all the power which anybody could imagine, or all the power which there actually is?
Having all the power which anybody could imagine involves irresolvable conundrums and involves the question of predestination.
Simplest possible view: If God has all the power which anybody could imagine, then, amongst other things, he can see what we're going to do tommorrow afternoon, which means that we are predestined and there is nothing we can do to change what we're going to be doing tommorrow.
Moreover, he can see what HE is going to be doing tommorrow afternoon as well, and there's nothing he can do about it either, which is a total contradiction.
That's the logical morass which follows from believing that God has all the power which anybody can imagine.
#1 Satan is the first cause
#2 Adam and eve our first fathers are the second cause
#3 Dont question GOD's actions, Job made this real clear, just cant remember what scripture, but i do remember reading something about, not to question GOD's work or his action.
#4 When GOD is ready to end wickedness and destory those who do wicked things, he will do so, in his time, not our time.
#5 And last, Look forward to better days, look forward to "A New Heaven & A New Earth, the home of the righteous ones - 2 peter Chapter 3 Verse 13.
After Armageddon and after Judgement day happens, we all can look for to the holy city, which btw is located on the earth, under GOD's New Governement - All Proof is located in the King James Version.
Right... Talk about gullible.
Eryemil wrote:Right... Talk about gullible.
I agree with U.2.K.
Only because in history i see that:
1. Jesus lived
2. Jesus died
3. Jesus resurrected.
How that is gullible, I don't see.
Other than the Bible or other religious writings you see nothing of the kind.
mesquite wrote:Other than the Bible or other religious writings you see nothing of the kind.
other than historical books on wars, you see no other evidence of WWII.
Biliskner wrote:mesquite wrote:Other than the Bible or other religious writings you see nothing of the kind.
other than historical books on wars, you see no other evidence of WWII.
What about plenty of graves ... plenty of bits and pieces of weaponry ... photos, film material, audio recordings of war speeches ... millions of people to recount the story ...
the more different sources and material evidence there is of something, the more credible the assumption that it actually happened/existed.
Biliskner wrote:mesquite wrote:Other than the Bible or other religious writings you see nothing of the kind.
other than historical books on wars, you see no other evidence of WWII.
Sure, thousands of independent historical books and documentation taken at the time of the event. Besides recorded eyewitness accounts there are photographs, movies, and tons of physical evidence.
Regarding Jesus there is nothing but stories of questionable accuracy written long after his death. According to the article below the best available was written 45 years after his death..
Quote: Posted on Thu, Mar. 10, 2005
Biblical experts seek to make ancient texts widely available
BY TOD ROBBERSON
The Dallas Morning News
LONDON - (KRT) - Is the Bible the infallible word of God or a text doctored by calligraphers, priests and politicians to satisfy their own earthly motivations?
Evidence suggesting the latter is contained on the pages of the world's oldest Bible, the Codex Sinaiticus. The ancient Greek Bible, written between the 1st and 4th centuries A.D., has been divided since the mid-1800s after European and Russian visitors removed sections of it from a desert monastery in Egypt.
But on Thursday, experts from Britain, Germany, Russia, Egypt and the United States launched a four-year project to digitally reunite the fragile texts and make them available to anyone with the click of a mouse.
"The Codex is so special as a foundation document and a unique icon to Christianity," said John Tuck, head of British Collections at the British Library in London. Unification of the manuscript, albeit digitally, "is a blockbuster in scholarship."
Only a privileged few have ever been allowed to handle the original manuscripts. Scholars need access to determine, among other things, how far the modern Bible has veered in interpretation from the Codex. Parts of the project announced Thursday will include Christian texts written as few as 45 years after the death of Jesus Christ.
The manuscripts are so delicate that only four scholars have been granted access in the past 19 years to sections of the text housed in London, said Scot McKendrick, head of medieval and earlier manuscripts at the British Library in London.
But researchers and the general public will be able to examine the digitized texts in minute detail. Historical and explanatory notations will accompany the digitized text so that viewers can trace how changes were made and, more important, why.
"Obviously, the way the editing works ... is exceedingly interesting. What is the process leading to this or that correction? Whether it was merely editorial, or if they were following a theological lead" in altering the message, McKendrick said.
Ray Bruce, a film director who is producing a documentary on the project, cited the Book of Mark as an example of how much the modern Bible has been altered from the Codex text. In the Codex, he said, the Book of Mark ends at chapter 16, verse 8, with the discovery that Christ's tomb was empty.
But more modern versions contain an additional 12 verses with testimony from Mary Magdalene and 11 apostles referring to the resurrection of Jesus.
"It shows how much this is a dynamic process of editing and adaptation," he said, but also raises questions about the influence man has had on texts regarded by Christians as divinely inspired.
Researchers and plunderers have particularly coveted the Codex because the texts were written so soon after the life of Jesus, and they are the largest and longest-surviving Biblical manuscript in existence, including both the Old and New Testament. In addition, the Codex contains two Christian texts written around 65 A.D., the Shepherd of Hermas and the Epistle of Barnabas.
Until the mid-1800s, the complete Codex was housed inside St. Catherine's Monastery in Sinai, Egypt. But the texts were broken up when visitors bribed, cajoled or deceived monks into letting certain sections be removed for further examination in Russia, Britain and Germany.
"They were never returned," said Greek Orthodox Archbishop Damianos of Sinai. "The monastery felt a great injustice was done."
He said disappearance of the texts led to upheaval in the monastery, and because of lingering resentment, the monks at St. Catherine's had been "a bit reluctant to respond positively" when asked to participate in the current project.
In particular, he singled out Britain for criticism because of what he described as the underhanded manner in which it obtained its texts and its longtime refusal to return them. Nevertheless, he said, the monastery agreed to join the digitization project.
Other parts of the manuscript that had been taken to Russia disappeared after the 1918 Bolshevik Revolution and were feared lost forever. They did not reappear until the mid-1940s and are now kept at the National Library of Russia in St. Petersburg.
McKendrick said the Codex was originally produced on high-grade papyrus with state-of-the-art ink and pens - the best available at the time.
Similarly, the new digitization project will use some of today's most advanced technology, he added. "So in a sense, we'll be matching 4th century cutting-edge technology with cutting-edge 21st century technology."
Source
"The Case for Christ" - Lee Strobel.
Spend AU$5.95, read it, then talk to me.
Your quote from the Dallas paper shows "dynamic" text. Both of the accounts show that the resurrection of Jesus to be true. what's your point?
Biliskner wrote:mesquite wrote:Other than the Bible or other religious writings you see nothing of the kind.
other than historical books on wars, you see no other evidence of WWII.
other than poetry, you see no other evidence of Shakespear's existence.
happy?
C'mon, you can do better than that . We have Shakespear's works, as he wrote them, NOT as they were written by others some 45 to 300 years after the fact by unknown authors with unknown motives, as is the case with Jesus.
Now if you want to discuss Josephus, there we get into a case of almost certain changing of his writings.
mesquite wrote:C'mon, you can do better than that . We have Shakespear's works, as he wrote them, NOT as they were written by others some 45 to 300 years after the fact by unknown authors with unknown motives, as is the case with Jesus.
Now if you want to discuss Josephus, there we get into a case of almost certain changing of his writings.
the case is Bible and Bible alone. like I said, "Case for Christ" - I'm a Christian convert, and I read books before I was "reborn" (albeit not many books for i'm not a reader, but becoming a Christian and doing philosophy of science helped greatly)
an yes i grew up in a 'critical thinking' westernized schooling system and that's why I'm doing History and Philosophy of Science at Melbourne University, AUS, and some "real science" too, on the side of course.
Now what is it you have a problem with in the Bible? Or is it just a general "Bible problem" vibe?
Biliskner wrote:Now what is it you have a problem with in the Bible? Or is it just a general "Bible problem" vibe?
For a partial answer, see
this post
RESPOND
Hello, I am fairly new and I just wanted to give what i believe and know throughout my christian years.
I understand that there is a debate of if the world should be perfect or if God is really a perfect God and if he was why are we suffering.
Well my understanding of the whole matter from what i have read from the K.J.V. is that in the beginning the word was God and the word is God and He(God) made us in his own image, perfect and upright. He made the garden of Eden perfect with everything that Adam needed including a mate Eve. HE didnt make them robot though to praise him on every beck and call because he has the angles to do that and as you know or if you dont know they even have a mind thought such as Lucifer one of the most beautiful angle there was and he wanted to take over and do his thing, but GOD being the mercyful God that he is, he didnt detroy saton but he cast him down into the earth in a lake of fire which is now hell. I beleive that God is perfect and sense he gave Adam a choice to do right and wrong it made him know that what he has created is good and just. The world would have been perfect in our eyes because there would be no sin in the world, but when Adam took of the fruit thats when sin came into the world and gave saton the power to tempt us, but he only can do so much because he stilll have to answer to God.
We have choices that God allowed us to have to chose him or not but there is a consequece for every choice good or bad, good you recieve a gift of life in heaven, bad you receive a chastening, like a spanking, but God doesnt just destroy us quickly and as soon as we do something he gives us chance after chance to change and chose eternal life. He forgives us only if we ask and even if we are too stubborn to ask.
I feel that if we were made were the earth was perfect and we were already happy than there would be no thought of God or praising God, there would be no sense of Faith, Hope, Peace, Longsuffering, Mercy, etc. I could probably go on forever. And would if there wasnt anything to hope for (Some people may think that way) But if you dont what do you believe you life is like without the hope that there is a Better world a Better place to have a perfect life and no worries no sin no crime no death, a life of eternal happyness, that is something to strive for in my live and at the same time while the world indure war and hardship I will indure my trials and tribulations, but still looking so ever to God for the blessings that he has in store not only for me on this crazy earth but the mantion I will live in heaven and the street of Gold that i will see when i get there.
Ladicha wrote:but GOD being the mercyful God that he is, he didnt detroy saton but he cast him down into the earth in a lake of fire which is now hell.
I take it that you read the Bible very literally, and in that light it puzzles me how you can characterize being cast into a lake of fire for eternity as being merciful. Could it be because of the bad people that God tosses to Lucifer as play toys? Seriously, it is beyond me how any literal reading of the Bible can deduce a merciful God.
mesquite wrote:Ladicha wrote:but GOD being the mercyful God that he is, he didnt detroy saton but he cast him down into the earth in a lake of fire which is now hell.
I take it that you read the Bible very literally, and in that light it puzzles me how you can characterize being cast into a lake of fire for eternity as being merciful. Could it be because of the bad people that God tosses to Lucifer as play toys? Seriously, it is beyond me how any literal reading of the Bible can deduce a merciful God.
But think about how bad we are, we
constantly are turning our back to him. He gives us chance after chance, that sounds merciful to me. He has given us the oppurtunity of forgiveness, all we must do is kneel down, and humble ourselves before him...that sounds pretty loving to me, considering how puny and pathetic we are compared to him.
Jer wrote:Entertainment!? ...like a globe-sized broadcast of survivor...but instead of calling it "reality television" it's just called "reality".
What do you think?
Believe the Human. It is correct. It makes good viewing on what you would refer to as a Wednesday evening in your time measurement.
Zog, what do you think of the Terry Schiavo situation?
The people voted in the law makers. The laws were made by those elected representatives, and at this present stage of the situation, it is considered that none of the peoples laws are being broken.
Due process in this particular matter cannot really be disputed effectively, as this case has been reviewed by various appeals on many occasions, with various legal experts spending thousands of hours on the matter.
It now looks as if the situation will not be reversed.
I cannot comment on what I feel about the matter, due to lack of intimate knowledge about who said what, to whom regarding the prolonging of life.
Only Mr and Mrs Shiavo know what her instructions were, I believe.
If I had real confirmation that it was her wish that she did not want to have her life prolonged, I would probably have taken the same action as her husband.
One of the main implications of all this, is that it may set some form of precedent.
