nimh wrote:CoastalRat, this isnt actually meant as a cheap shot/provocation, though I suppose it is kinda:
If a conservative Muslim father feels that according to his religion and moral standards, it is a sin for a woman to appear without a headscarf (or veil or whatever) - when he tells his 18-year old daughter that she is either to live according to his rules, with headscarf, or to move out and find and fund her own way in life - would that too just be "telling a grown child that they are on their own due to the choices they have made"? Would she too be "nothing more than a spoiled brat" if she had expected that her father would tolerate her presence in the house even if she chose to live without headscarf?
(I acknowledge your later, fair and sincere posts - I'm just wondering how (far) the criterion applies - probably just because its alien to me. I can not imagine anything so bad that it would lead me to refuse a son or daughter of mine to stay in my house, or to support them ... perhaps if they were to use crack, steal ... but nothing in the realm of "immoral" - its just very far away from me, hence the ... questions/wondering how far the logic would go, or something.)
CoastalRat wrote:Something tells me that if you asked her dad he would tell you he still loves her because she is his daughter. He just does not approve of her choice of lifestyle and will not support her because of it.
I knew I shouldn't have come back to this thread. I keep reading what y'all keep writing and what I read is that y'all think a parent has some sort of obligation to let their kids live with them forever and sponge off mom and dad to their heart's content, regardless of their lifestyle choices or anything else. I'm sorry, but I don't buy it.
Believe it or not, morality is important. Now I do not pretend (and neither should you) to know all the details in the Keyes family concerning this situation. As I have stated, there is nothing my children could do to make me stop loving them and to reject them. If Alan Keyes feels otherwise, then I must admit I don't understand. But, if my grown children wish to live under my roof and have me pay for their education, food and whatever else, then they will abide by my rules while living at home.
It is against my moral nature for a couple to engage is sex outside of marriage. So my home is off limits for that. Allowing it would be tantamount to saying it is ok. In your example, a muslim man has every right to tell his grown daughter to move out, for whatever reason he wishes. I don't care if he just gets up one day and says he is tired of her wearing blue dresses all the time. He has that right. He is not destroying her life by doing so. I have know people who have made their children move out within months of their high school graduation (a bit extreme if you ask me, but they had that right). Many people I know have refused to finance their children's higher education (my wife's family for one) without it negatively impacting their children. They manage just fine financing their own education.
So again, regardless of why he kicked her out, it certainly did not and will not destroy her dreams or whatever (can't remember the exact wording of that post, which is all I was commenting on when this whole thing began). Her dreams are still achievable, just without the silver spoon she has had stuck in her mouth all her life. Big deal. People succeed in much worse scenerios.
I will not fault the Keyes' for what they have done. I don't think they did it to try to change her. I think they did it because their beliefs make it impossible to support a lifestyle they see as sinful. While you and I may have handled things differently, they chose to handle it this way. So be it.
Now, if you want to talk about his being a carpetbagger, then I totally agree with the other sentiments expressed here. It was wrong for Hilary and it was wrong when Keyes tried it. And if he condemned Hilary for doing it, then he is worse because his doing it makes him a hypocrite on top of it.
