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Finest Moment or Blackest Page

 
 
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 08:13 am
People of all natios are seldom hesitant to point out their country's finest moments in history, but are far more reluctant to remember, let alone discuss, the not-so-great events of the past.

For Finland, the finest hour, militarily, was undoubtedly the series of defensive victories over the vastly superior Soviet war machine at the height of the Winter War (1939-1940). Socially, I would say, our finest hour came later in 1952, when Finland completed the gruelling reparation payments in money and goods that the Soviet Union had claimed as part of the 1944 peace agreement (after Finland lost the Continuation War, 1941-1944, but retained its independence). Despite the ravages of three wars (lest we forget the Lapland War (1944-1945), forced upon us by the Soviets and Germans, who laid waste to the entire province of Lapland), considerable loss of territory (over 10 percent) and resources, not to mention manpower, the population got together and worked to pay what everybody saw as the price of freedom under the Soviet cloud, 300 million dollars (at a time when dollars were still worth something and small countries' budgets were counted in millions and not in billions).

So much for the chest-beating. Can't claim any of it, since I was born way after the events, but it created in part the Finnish national identity of which I am, a sometimes reluctant, part.

As for the darker moments: as always in wars, especially when dealing with a totalitarian enemy, bad things happen. One of the darkest pages in our history was right after independence when the country was torn apart by a civil war between whites and reds that led to much suffering and split the population for decades (in fact, until the Soviet invasion attempt of 1939).
However, what most people consider a bigger trauma (since it does not agree with the idea we have of ourselves as the good guys, and as the victims of Soviet aggression) was the existence of Finnish concentration camps (not like the German kind, more like internment camps, but still not nice) for Russian civillians rounded up in the areas "liberated" by the Finnish army during the continuation war. Conditions in those camps were bad and hundreds of people died. (Still, any Finn will tell you that the inmates of those camps got the same amount of food and medical aid as the average Finnish citizen and that it was in any case a paradise compared to the German or Russian concentration camps, which may be true, but it doesn't excuse the fact.)
Finally, what I consider the blackest page in our history is the forced return of Ingrian-Finns to the Soviet Union, after the war. These were people who had fled to Finland from Soviet controlled areas during Stalin's terror in the 1930s and during the war. Many of them had fought on the Finnish side during the Continuation War and were either directly executed or sent linea recta to Siberia. The Soviets even demanded that Ingrian orphans who had been adopted by Finns be returned, even years after the war. I believe giving in to those demands was an unforgivable act of cowardice that ruined the lives of over 50.000 Ingrian refugees (although thousands were helped by Finnish friends to escape to Sweden and onward (there is a plaque in the church of Tornio from Ingrian Finns thanking the population for helping them across the border). This sad fact alone explains why Finland accepted in 1990 the moral duty to take in the descendants of the Ingrian Finns, now often completely russified, who were free to migrate to Finland after the collapse of the Soviet Union.

So, now that I have gotten this off my chest, what are your best and worst historical moments? (We are fortunate in the fact that Finland has not existed as an independent nation for more than 100 years, so luckily we do not have so many black pages to choose from, unlike you older nations)
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nimh
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 09:11 am
That was interesting, especially the last bit about the Ingrians, Paaskynen. A tragedy indeed.

Darkest page in our history? I think that out of all countries occupied by Nazi Germany, it was in Holland that the smallest percentage of Jews survived... and the very few who came back after the war, were "welcomed" with hostility and often refused their former houses, posessions, even children (adopted by other families during the war).

It started earlier already, when Jewish refugees from Germany in the late thirties were interned in refugee camps by the border - nothing learnt on that count.

Then there was Indonesia ... and our extensive profits from the slavetrade, and our own keeping of slaves in Surinam ...
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bobsmythhawk
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 10:49 am
I remember my ex-wife telling me of the Winter War. She was one of many Finns to march by Marshall Mannerheim's body on display after his death. I understand even today the examples of the Winter War still being taught in military circles. As an American I knew, even before meeting my wife to be, of the repayment of the Finnish war debt. Finland was the only country to do so.

I have a site bookmarked on the conflict which I'm sure you've read. Just in case you haven't, here it is.

http://www.kaiku.com/winterwar.html
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Paaskynen
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 01:37 pm
nimh wrote:
Darkest page in our history? I think that out of all countries occupied by Nazi Germany, it was in Holland that the smallest percentage of Jews survived... and the very few who came back after the war, were "welcomed" with hostility and often refused their former houses, posessions, even children (adopted by other families during the war).

It started earlier already, when Jewish refugees from Germany in the late thirties were interned in refugee camps by the border - nothing learnt on that count.

Then there was Indonesia ... and our extensive profits from the slavetrade, and our own keeping of slaves in Surinam ...


I am very aware of these black pages, after all I went to school in the Netherlands. The Dutch like the image they have of hiding Jewish citizens, but the reality is that the people who helped hide Anne Frank and her family were Dutch, but the people who betrayed her as well. Of course there are explanations why a larger percentage of the Dutch Jews were murdered than in other countries: The Dutch habit, pre-war, to record people's religion in their personal file made it easy for the Germans to find Jews, which is why the resistance carried out arson attacks on civil archives to destroy the files. Furthermore, the Netherlands are a small densely populated country without mountains or other barren regions where people might hide. It was difficult and very dangerous to hide jews or resistance fighters.

As to slavery, I have read that the Dutch were responsible for only 5 percent of the slaves transported across the Atlantic, which is no excuse, but I have never heard that in Portugal or Spain (the two main slaving nations) there has been much soul searching on the subject. The Dutch did leave a political legacy in Africa as they did in North America (where they traded with the Iroquois federation supplying them with the weapons that allowed the Iroquois to become the most powerful nation in the region). On the Gold Coast the Dutch had as main trading partners the Ashanti kingdom, which equally increased its power and influence with the guns delivered by the Dutch. Another side effect of the Dutch slave trade with the Ashanti is the introduction of wax print cloth in West Africa (a little known fact). After the British had banned slave trade, the Ashanti king was stuck with a large number of slaves that he could not sell. The Dutch took them off his hands, as "volunteers" for their colonial wars in Indonesia. Actually, the African soldiers performed quite well, being used to the tropical climate, and some of them rose to high ranks and riches. After their contract expired many of them returned to their home land, bringing with them batik (wax print) cloth from Indonesia. Thus a market was created in Africa for wax print cloth, which the Dutch were ready to supply. Until today the most desired wax print tissues in West Africa come from the Netherlands (Vlisco Real Dutch Wax, ask any West African lady). History is fascinating, but I digress.

I won't go into the Indonesia thing, two of my uncles were forced to go there to fight the insurgents. But I know it isone of the most shameful parts of recent history and not open to discussion in many circles (much the same as the Vietnam syndrome in the US, I guess).
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Paaskynen
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 01:45 pm
bobsmythhawk wrote:
I remember my ex-wife telling me of the Winter War.


I am sorry to hear she is your ex-wife. Hyvää Päivää to you too, (though actually, I belong to the Swedish-speaking minority in Finland, so Goddag as well Very Happy )
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bobsmythhawk
 
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Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 02:04 pm
Same thing with my ex. She was a Swedish Finn and attended the Swedish School in Helsinki. Approximately 10% of the population is Swedish Finn. By the way the other post was interesting to me too as I'm part Iroquois (Mohawk). You may know that were called the Six Nations for the six tribes. Oneida, Onondaga, Cayuga, Seneca, Mohawk and the in the 1700's the Tuscarora joined the confederation..

Näkemiin
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nimh
 
  1  
Reply Tue 15 Feb, 2005 04:48 pm
Fascinating response, Paaskynen - yes, you're right about the causes of how so many Jews got to be transported off here - and intriguing stuff about the Dutch-forged ties in & between Africa / America / Indonesia. Up to the continued popularity of Dutch-produced print cloth in Western Africa, yes, I read an article about that a year or two or three ago, I think an interview with the owner of the business here, but I had totally absolutely forgotten it - thanks for bringing that trivia back up.

Meanwhile, I thought the premise of your thread - the invitation to each to come with the blackest (and finest) moment of their country's history, in their view - was thought-provoking enough and I'm still hoping others will chime in as well.
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Paaskynen
 
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Reply Wed 16 Feb, 2005 06:49 am
Hi Nimh (username based on the book/film, or the National Institute of Mental Health Smile ?)
I got irritated to see German protestors at the Dresden commemoration complaining about the allied atrocities (such as terror bombing cities). It is so easy to see someone else's shortcomings (read atrocities) and gloss over one's own. I do think the Dresden bombardment was a war crime and I am sure that if Bomber Harris had worked for the Luftwaffe, he would certainly have been hanged at Neurenberg. However, perhaps the Germans cannot claim the moral high ground in this matter (spoken by someone whose uncles and aunts lived through the German terror bombardment of Rotterdam in 1940).
So I thought I would challenge other users of able2know to come up with their worst historical pages (and leave it to others to explain tem away). However, no admissions so far (apart from yours). So, to level the playing field, maybe we should limit the period to 1917 until now (because Finland has only existed that long). That should make it a lot easier for many nations: Slavery can be omitted, as well as the ethnic cleansing of much of the North American continent
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