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What is sin?

 
 
Reply Sun 25 Feb, 2018 12:20 pm
Just curious as to how it is perceived.
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Type: Question • Score: 0 • Views: 752 • Replies: 19
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maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Feb, 2018 01:43 pm
@auroreII,
Sin is a religious word. It doesn't have any meaning outside of a specific religious context.

I can certainly tell you about sin from a American protestant point of view (this is my religious background). I know a bit about the Catholic view of sin.

It really depends on your specific religion.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 25 Feb, 2018 08:01 pm
@maxdancona,
Is there a different meaning of sin between Catholics and Protestants?

I kind of figured it meant the same thing in every religion.

Then again, I believe that if there is a God out there, different religions are just culturally unique ways of worshiping that same God. That could be coloring my understanding of sin.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Feb, 2018 08:25 pm
@oralloy,
I can only speak from the perspective of a former Protestant. But... yes I think there is. First of all there are the specifics which vary from religion to religion (i.e. can you eat meat on Friday).

There are more important differences in the emotional impact of sin, and the philosophical meaning of sin. For many fundamentalist protestant sects, not sinning takes a lot of energy and is a focus during the day. The catholic ritual of confession, where you atone for your sin after it has happened, is a different feeling from that of being a protestant.

I would be interested in hearing where the OP is coming from.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 25 Feb, 2018 09:05 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
The catholic ritual of confession, where you atone for your sin after it has happened, is a different feeling from that of being a protestant.

It led to the split between Catholicism and Protestantism, but the difference is much less significant today.

Really, I can see bad points with both official views from back then. There is something repugnant about the idea that someone is free to do bad things without remorse so long as they also do enough good things to outweigh it. But there is also something repugnant about the idea that someone is free to do bad things and then simply say sorry and have their slate wiped clean.

I say the best way is: if someone desires forgiveness, they should be expected to do as much as they can to offer restitution. But I also think that if they can never do enough to undo the harm they caused, so long as they are doing as much as they can, that is enough to be forgiven.

Today though the Catholic view in practice isn't much different from the Protestant view. The only atonement that is required is to say a few prayers.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Feb, 2018 09:16 pm
@oralloy,
When I left my religion, sin was no longer a meaningful concept. I care about my own values, and my interactions with people around me. I don't care about following any divine rules or the state of my eternal soul.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 25 Feb, 2018 10:47 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
When I left my religion, sin was no longer a meaningful concept.

Right and wrong are meaningful. Sin is just a way of referring to wrongdoing.


maxdancona wrote:
I care about my own values, and my interactions with people around me.

Well, do your values say that it is OK to callously harm other people so long as you also balance it out with good deeds?

Do your values say that if someone causes dreadful harm, if they say sorry their slate should be wiped clean without a further thought?

Do your values say that if someone causes dreadful harm, but they apologize and do their utmost to offer restitution, they should be forgiven?


maxdancona wrote:
I don't care about . . . the state of my eternal soul.

I for one hope that when I die there is a heaven and I meet the entrance qualifications. I also hope the same for those who I care about. I also hope that there is some sort of justice awaiting those who do terrible things to other people and get away with it.
ekename
 
  1  
Reply Sun 25 Feb, 2018 11:30 pm
I'd trade all the falsettos in the world for Gezza.

0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Mon 26 Feb, 2018 07:44 am
@oralloy,
Sin is externally defined... it is defined by what a deity wants, not by personal values or concern about others. My values are internally defined, God has nothing to do with it.

Many religions view pornography as a sin. When I used pornography as a religious young man, I felt the need for forgiveness. Of course there is no person of whom I could ask for forgiveness (all they want is for me to pay for a membership). Forgiveness only makes sense for sin if you are trying to get right with a supernatural being.
tsarstepan
 
  1  
Reply Tue 27 Feb, 2018 07:13 am
@maxdancona,
Sin can be pretty dang tasty!
https://i.imgur.com/3aefJEI.jpg
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bobo42
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2018 01:23 pm
@auroreII,
Sin is Estrangement from god !! Not following His Commandments or Moral laws in the Old Testament !!

bobo42
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2018 01:33 pm
@bobo42,
So you agree with me, Bobo. Without a deity...there is no such thing as sin.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2018 01:35 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Sin is externally defined... it is defined by what a deity wants, not by personal values or concern about others. My values are internally defined, God has nothing to do with it.

Let's be realistic here. The values promulgated by churches were not created by God. They were created by people who thought they were reflecting God's values.

If they were wrong about God's values, then the system that they created does not reflect God's values.


maxdancona wrote:
Forgiveness only makes sense for sin if you are trying to get right with a supernatural being.

I for one wouldn't mind finding some sort of pleasant afterlife waiting for me when I die.
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2018 01:41 pm
@oralloy,
Also, the question of sin and forgiveness does not have to be centered around religion.

The question of whether and when we forgive someone who has wronged us matters even in the absence of religious beliefs.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2018 01:54 pm
@oralloy,
In the Judeo-Christian tradition, a list of sins includes such things as...

- homosexual relationships.
- eating pork.
- working on Saturday.
- weaving cloth from two different types of fiber.

Who would give forgiveness for these things?
oralloy
 
  0  
Reply Sat 10 Mar, 2018 06:56 pm
@maxdancona,
As far as I'm concerned, there is nothing there that requires forgiveness.

Did you understand what I said when I said:

The question of sin and forgiveness does not have to be centered around religion.

The question of whether and when we forgive someone who has wronged us matters even in the absence of religious beliefs.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 13 Mar, 2018 08:27 am
@oralloy,
I disagree with you Oralloy, but this is a disagreement over the definition of a word... this is not an interesting topic anymore.
0 Replies
 
anthony1312002
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 05:07 am
@auroreII,
Anything not in harmony with, hence contrary to, God’s personality, standards, ways, and will; anything marring one’s relationship with God. It may be in word (Job 2:10; Ps 39:1), in deed (doing wrong acts [Le 20:20; 2Co 12:21] or failing to do what should be done [Nu 9:13; Jas 4:17]), or in mind or heart attitude (Pr 21:4; compare also Ro 3:9-18; 2Pe 2:12-15). Lack of faith in God is a major sin, showing, as it does, distrust of him or lack of confidence in his ability to perform. (Heb 3:12, 13, 18, 19) A consideration of the use of the original-language terms and examples associated with them illustrates this.

The common Hebrew term translated “sin” is chat·taʼthʹ; in Greek the usual word is ha·mar·tiʹa. In both languages the verb forms (Heb., cha·taʼʹ; Gr., ha·mar·taʹno) mean “miss,” in the sense of missing or not reaching a goal, way, mark, or right point. At Judges 20:16 cha·taʼʹ is used, with a negative, to describe the Benjamites who were ‘slingers of stones to a hairbreadth and would not miss.’ Greek writers often used ha·mar·taʹno with regard to a spearman missing his target. Both of these words were used to mean missing or failing to reach not merely physical objects or goals (Job 5:24) but also moral or intellectual goals or marks. Proverbs 8:35, 36 says the one finding godly wisdom finds life, but the ‘one missing [from Heb., cha·taʼʹ] wisdom is doing violence to his soul,’ leading to death. In the Scriptures both the Hebrew and Greek terms refer mainly to sinning on the part of God’s intelligent creatures, their missing the mark with regard to their Creator.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 05:27 am
@anthony1312002,
Can you answer the question directly Anthony?

I am stating that if God didn't exist, the concept of "sin" would have no meaning. This is because sin is defined by God.

Do you agree with this statement? That really is the question we are asking here. As a believer, you are in a unique position to answer it.
anthony1312002
 
  1  
Reply Fri 16 Mar, 2018 06:35 am
@maxdancona,
Sorry if I miss understood you maxdancona. But you are correct. The standard for sin is established by Jehovah God. If indeed he did not exist then no such standard would exist.
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