How should this scenario be dealt with ?

Forums: Workplace, Work, Harassment, Uncomfortable, What Would You Do
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Okay, I want you to pretend you are a manager.

You have been informed of something that has occured between one of your workers (female, 18) and a senior member of staff (male, 23).
What would you think of this and how would you deal with it ?

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A senior member of staff asks a worker to go to the pub with him. Even after saying no, the senior still keeps asking to go out (this goes on for a couple weeks).

ONE NIGHT AT WORK

The senior was looking through the workers instagram and looking at pictures of her and commenting on them to her while she was in the room - "look at you in this!" "Woah you look good here"

The senior makes comments to the worker such as - "how fun are you?" - and asks the worker to go to the pub with him after work that night. She says no, but the senior insists and will not take no for an answer, and even says for the worker to call home to say she will not be going home after work. Again, she says no, but he still tries to get her to go - "I'll even buy you a drink" "I'll drive you home" -
After multiple times of the worker saying no, the senior says - "fine, we're going tomorrow." - Again the worker says no and goes to leave the room,

Senior - "no you dont have to go, stay in here it's fine"

The worker stays, but very obviously uncomfortable.

Senior - "So you coming out tonight then?"

Worker - "I've already said no."

Senior - "you have to make it up to me then"

Worker - "what ?"

Senior - "you have to make it up to me. Come over here and give me a hug."

Worker - "im not giving you a hug"

Senior - "no, come here and give me a hug"

Worker - "No, I am NOT going to hug you"

The senior insists on getting a hug just because the worker would not go to the pub.
The worker again says no and finally gets to leave the room.

●●●●●●●●

If you were a manager what would you think of this and how would you deal with it ?

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@Annoah,

HR, I am sure, has a policy exactly against this kind of workplace bullshit.

It doesn't matter what I think or want as a manager. The company rule is to fire the senior. Of course it is.

1 Reply

This is employee harassment, pure and simple. The worker needs to go to HR or the company owner. As a manager knowing about this harassment, you are obligated to report it. Document everything.

0 Replies

@Annoah,

I agree (as the resident anti-feminist).

This guy clearly crossed the line. He should be fired.

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@jespah,

jespah wrote:

The company rule is to fire the senior. Of course it is.

Depends on the size of the company and how long the manager has worked there. He should be disciplined, but often with long term members of staff that takes the form of a verbal followed by a written warning, and only after that can they be dismissed.

If it's a small company whose owner is of a similar mindset to the manager the only recourse is a work tribunal, (over here at least anyway.)

If nothing else it's a good reason to join a trade union, they'll have your back even if the management doesn't.

When I was a civil servant they employed a real creep who immediately started freaking out the women he worked with. He followed one lady around during her lunch hour; she went grocery shopping and on her return to the office he told her every item she had bought. He asked another woman what she would do if she was attacked/raped in the street where she got off the bus.

It was a creepy enough question in itself, but what made it doubly frightening was that he knew what bus she caught and where she got off. Both women immediately joined the trade union which is when I got involved. Despite having a sympathetic manager it was next to impossible getting rid of the creep straight away because this behaviour didn't surface until after he'd passed his probationary period. Fortunately, after a lot of work on both sides we were able to find out that he'd lied on his application form about previous civil service work, and that's why he was dismissed straight away.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all in favour of employment rights but they can be exploited by creeps.

1 Reply

@izzythepush,

Yes, and not every company has an actual Human Resources Dept. to complain to.

1 Reply

@roger,

You're right, I may have implied that but thanks for clarifying things.

2 Replies

@izzythepush,

That's true. Larger companies certainly do. Smaller ones, really small ones, don't have managers beyond owners. Owners don't want to lose their hard work to a lawsuit.

As for middle-sized companies, they're probably also going to go the route of firing the senior. Reputation is everything when you are building a company.

Even if the senior is the most fantastic salesman or window cleaner or whatever since the beginning of time, he's far more of a liability than he is an asset. And due to the young age of the senior, by definition he can't have a ton of work experience (and may be fresh out of school). In a law firm, for example, someone of that level of expertise could be replaced easily just about anywhere in the US (in bad areas or out in the sticks, the firm would probably have to offer $$ to get someone to work there, though). In a lot of professions, the guy could also be readily replaced - there are other people with his particular truck driving license or skill fixing cars or coding or whatever.

Hiring is not simple and it's not cheap. But defending a sexual harassment case which is so obvious? That's a lot more costly, and not just for legal fees. Imagine every woman in a city or town refusing to go to this particular shop, movie theater, restaurant, or whatever.

1 Reply

@Annoah,

I have been managing people for quite a long time - this is not appropriate behavior from the "senior". As a manager because of the sensitivity of these issues I would talk with HR. In years prior, I probably would have just dealt with the individual (senior) by pulling him in a private office and telling him the behavior is unprofessional and inappropriate and he is to stop. However, due to the sensitivity in the current environment, I would speak with HR first.

I would expect afterwards I would end up speaking like I noted above. The HR part is to also protect me as a manager. From my training - anyone who overhears or knows of such behavior going on is equally responsible for not reporting as the individual is harassing the other employee.

Long story short - this is considered harassment - the female employee repeatedly said No. It is clear this person has said no several times. Even just the inappropriate conversations, everything else as well.

I think this manager, senior and anyone else around witnessing this could be in big trouble.

And as an aside - it doesn't matter that the male is a "senior" it could be a peer; being a "senior" just makes it worse - in either case it is harassment.

1 Reply

@Linkat,

I am surprised Linkat. Given the repeated offenses, the clear "no" and the insistence on a hug... you wouldn't fire this guy on the spot?

I can't imagine the junior employee ever feeling comfortable with this guy around.

1 Reply

@jespah,

There are procedures that have to be followed. Not so long ago that sort of behaviour would be shrugged off as office banter. It's not, it's highly inappropriate and downright unacceptable, but whether or not it could be classed as gross misconduct is open to debate, and if a company sacked him outright without following procedure they could end up in court, especially if there's no witnesses and it's his word against hers.

I'm not the one you need to convince btw, I'd sack the bastard.

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@izzythepush,

You were perfectly clear. I was only confirming (from experience) what you said.

1 Reply

@roger,

roger wrote:

You were perfectly clear.

That makes a change. Thanks for saying.

0 Replies

@maxdancona,

In a large company you also have to be careful of firing - it seems crazy but as a manager I cannot fire on the spot.

You go to HR (it is called CYA) - because of all the potential legal stuff you need to go to HR.

You won't believe what I had to go through before when I had an employee whose work was crap. He just plain out wasn't suited for the job - (I got him from someone else that made a really bad hire). He had little skills for the job. We had to meet with him weekly, have written up stuff on his progress, etc.

I finally just had an off the record heart to heart - basically said I doubt you really even like this job (which he agreed he didn't). Kind of worked with him to get him a better suited job.

<basically what izzy said>

Everyone is so afraid of getting a lawsuit - that includes a lawsuit from firing someone for something they should be fired for.

1 Reply

I work part time in a restaurant. The other nite a salad girl started screaming about the pizza maker, that "he put his hands on me." He denies it, says he was nudging her to the side because she was in the way of his pizza station. No witnesses stepped forward. Very busy nite, tight quarters in the kitchen. She gets calmed down. Everyone was talked to. She left work; the pizza maker is upset.

She has now filed with the EEOC - a sexual harassmrnt suit. Says she has been "harassed" by this worker since Nov 2017 and claims she was assaulted that nite (super bowl sunday 2018) She never told owner or management about any incident from past minths. Not sure where the "sexual" came from, she just checked a box on the form)

She is 19, he is 20. She has never returned to work since the incident.

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@Linkat,

The term "hostile workplace environment" seems relevant here. I would hope it is easier to fire someone for creating a hostile environment than it is to fire someone for being unable to complete their job.

In the case of job performance, the hope is that the company will work with the employee to see if she can improve.

In the case of a hostile workplace environment, once a line has been crossed, it is hard to see how this can be corrected without getting rid of the offending employee.

1 Reply

@maxdancona,

Well in the example given it seems there are enough witnesses...harder in the case when there is none.

I had a situation where I was pulled into an office to discuss a situation like that - there was a particular older man - we were all in our 20s and he always was trying to get the younger girls to go out to lunch with him - he would hit on us - more subtle. So at a company party he was getting to chummy with one of my co-workers and she complained - she mentioned my name as I had told my history of him asking me to lunch and how it made me feel uncomfortable.

Nothing was done about it - although I do not know if anyone actually spoke with him. But that was about 20 years ago. So the attitude was a little different.

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Hi all !

It's interesting to hear what you all have to say, I appreciate the response!

The Senior mentioned in this post had a meeting with with our manager and also the regional/operational manager. He ended up stepping down from the position, however, the reason behind this was all work related. As far as he knows, the complaints made about him (by myself and many others) were only to do with him not taking his job seriously and not doing what he was being paid to do. Last week was the first time i have seen him since he stepped down and all day, whenever I was around, he kept making comments to everyone about stepping down and how "a certain someone" made complaints against him even though I wasn't the only one to complain about him.

Back to the other thing:

This is the second time he has harassed a member of staff - which is known by our manager - and, even after asking what i wanted to be done, this was completely brushed under the carpet and unfortunately i feel as if he has been able to get away with it. I don't feel comfortable around him (which my manager also knows) and if im honest, it angers me that he is still around meaning he could possibly do it again 😕😤

I would also just like to point out that he does have a girlfriend who also works in our workplace but in a different department and has been with her for a couple years.

1 Reply

@Annoah,

If he is going to be kept on, why can't someone tell him what his problem is? This seems like the worst outcome for everyone. Someone needs to tell him to stop harassing co-workers.

0 Replies

@Annoah,

I would sack both of them.

0 Replies

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