Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

Those listed in the post you lifted the one line from, Parados. Please don't be dense.

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Foxfyre wrote:

I have I think 36-37 light bulbs installed in various light fixtures and lamps throughout my house. A minimum of $2220 to replace them no matter how long they last? That's a lot out of my budget. Also no replacement available for large open areas where I need 100 watt or larger bulbs?

I bought five of those frosted LED lightbulbs, just to see if they're worth anything. They seem to be way less expensive here than in the states. This here

goes for 19.90.

It's just one with 90 LEDs, granted. But still nice. Technical details:

- comparable to a 65W incandescent
- 90 LEDs
- 6W
- life span: 100,000 hours
- diameter of bulb: ca 100mm

Can't tell you whether or not the bit about the 100,000 hours life span is true, though. The light is a bit, hm, greenish, too. Much like the first CFLs.

So, for the moment, I'm sticking to CFLs. I'm using the ones with frosted bulbs covering the spirally bits over here. There's a recycling place down my road, so I'm really worried about that aspect either. Really nice light, too.

I've tried to find the same bulb-covered CFLs in the States, but they don't seem to exist there. Maybe you just know where to get them, though.
Anyhow, even the spirally ones were quite expensive.

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Actually I don't mind at all that they're devleoping new technology--good grief what would it be like if we were still boiling our clothes in lye soap in the front yard or even if we had never progressed past the wringer washing machine? I still remember the ice man bringing a big block of ice for the icebox every morning, but it didn't really keep stuff all that cold and there was no such thing as a home freezer.

I grew up with an old free standing gas stove in the living room as the only source of heat in the house and it probably pumped a lot of carbon monoxide into the air, but the house was so drafty that nobody died. I was grown up and married before we had a house with air conditioning and yes, the summers were just as hot then as they are now.

So am I going to gripe if folks are building a better mouse trap to give us light now? No way. Bring it on.

But you know what? All those other things got done without the government mandating a thing, without raising any taxes, and without creating a hardship on anybody. Yeah the buggy whip industry took a hit when automobiles came into popularity, but they could see it coming and could retool to make other stuff. The typewriter was improved and improved and improved and became a wonderful, innovative machine and then became obsolete when computers proved to be a better way to put words on paper. The government didn't require we make the change. It happened because the computer was a superior invention.

My libertarian soul resists what to me are clearly unconstitutional congressional mandates taking away our choices and meddling in the free enterprise system. It takes us one step closer to a socialism that for me is unacceptable. So it isn't really the light bulbs themselves, but what I think is a dangerous concept that could produce very negative consequences.

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I mostly agree with that.

We've got all kinds of new lightbulbs in stores here without the old ones being banned. Hybrid cars were developed without the old ones being outlawed.

Not too much need for the government to interfere.

The same, obviously, goes for government interference with oil and gas prices. The practice of opening up the strategic oil reserve, just because gas prices go up, is beyond ridiculous.

Let consumers pay for the actual price of gas, and you'll soon notice how these new technologies can compete.

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old europe wrote:

I mostly agree with that.

We've got all kinds of new lightbulbs in stores here without the old ones being banned. Hybrid cars were developed without the old ones being outlawed.

Not too much need for the government to interfere.

The same, obviously, goes for government interference with oil and gas prices. The practice of opening up the strategic oil reserve, just because gas prices go up, is beyond ridiculous.

Let consumers pay for the actual price of gas, and you'll soon notice how these new technologies can compete.

Holy cow, OE. I think that is the best post you ever made, at least from my perspective. I felt like going to find the thermometer to see if I had a high enough temperature to be delusional. Smile

Just kidding. It is actually very nice to agree. I think we all might agree on many more practical things and there would be a lot less angst in the world if we simply let common sense overrule our emotions most of the time.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Those listed in the post you lifted the one line from, Parados. Please don't be dense.

You mean the heat issue?

You do realize that a 100w halogen produces less heat than a 100w incandescent, don't you? A halogen will burn cooler in any fixture that takes a standard incandescent.

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Then why did the issue of 'causing fires' come up? I think you didn't read all the stuff I posted. Good points AND bad points.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Then why did the issue of 'causing fires' come up? I think you didn't read all the stuff I posted. Good points AND bad points.

Interesting.

I've got a halogen bulb in the living room lamp. The whole lamp is made of glass, so the heat issue is not really an issue at all.

On the other hand, I find the light a bit too bright or too white. I think "closely resembles sunlight" is an interesting description. Don't like it too much for a living room setting. At the moment I'm mostly using CFLs there, which make a very nice, warm light. It's really impossible to see the difference between CFLs and incandescents.

That said, I agree that halogen lamps would make sense for work areas etc.

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Foxfyre wrote:

Then why did the issue of 'causing fires' come up? I think you didn't read all the stuff I posted. Good points AND bad points.

They are NOT talking about screw in halogen lamps when they are talking about fires. They are talking about the long thin halogen T-3 light bulbs that go in fixtures made for halogen only.

https://www.etoplighting.com/proimages/T3L120500/T3L120500m.gif

The biggest problem I see with using that lamp to replace your incandescents Fox is they won't fit in your fixtures.

Yes, if you use halogen floor lamps that bounce light you would need more lamps because the light is reflected. Lumens decrease the farther you get from the light source. By bouncing it off the ceiling you are introducing something that absorbs some of the light at the same time increasing the distance from the bulb to what you are lighting. Most up light floor lamps are rated for 100w and yes they have the fire warning because it is easy to throw something over the top of the light. Put fabric against your 100w incandescent and see how long before it starts a fire.

A 300w T-3 is very bright and I have only ever seen them used in work lights or commercial track lighting fixtures.

If you use a screw in halogen bulb you get light similar to a regular incandescent for less wattage and less heat.

http://www.peclamp.com/images/product_bt/220.jpg

In case you didn't notice Fox. All your sources are foreign to the US. The US doesn't use 240v lamps. You might want to try US sources before you try to use them to complain about how halogens don't work in the US. HIR lamps are more difficult to make for 240v than they are for 120

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old europe wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
Then why did the issue of 'causing fires' come up? I think you didn't read all the stuff I posted. Good points AND bad points.

Interesting.

I've got a halogen bulb in the living room lamp. The whole lamp is made of glass, so the heat issue is not really an issue at all.

On the other hand, I find the light a bit too bright or too white. I think "closely resembles sunlight" is an interesting description. Don't like it too much for a living room setting. At the moment I'm mostly using CFLs there, which make a very nice, warm light. It's really impossible to see the difference between CFLs and incandescents.

That said, I agree that halogen lamps would make sense for work areas etc.

If I've even SEEN a halogen light bulb, I was unaware of it. Do you think the data I posted on these gizmos is flawed? I didn't write it. Just posted it without prejudice. I LOVE long lasting light bulbs and back when I was managing a social agency, we found some small bulbs that didn't burn out in our enclosed exit signs in a matter of days as the regular bulbs did. No idea what the better bulbs were--they were more expensive but lasted a long time.

We use CFLs in our office light fixture now, but don't really like them, find it difficult to read by them, and we supplement them with incandescent bulbs in our desk lamps. I have the long fluorescent bulbs in my kitchen ceiling to light up the entire ceiling and I love those.

I don't mind spending twice the money if you get twice the use and light--however, those prices I posted were more than ten times more expensive for a halogen bulb for just twice the use and perhaps more light even if heat isn't a factor. I'm not sure that would feel like we were getting our money's worth.

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parados wrote:

HIR lamps are more difficult to make for 240v than they are for 120

HIR lamps are an interesting concept. Seems to remedy some of the disadvantages of the too-bright pure halogen lamps.

Never seen them over here, though.

Seems the industry just went from incandescents straight to CFLs and now to LEDs.

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Hm, this here

old europe wrote:

Never seen them over here, though.

was about these bulbs:

parados wrote:

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Foxfyre,

Assume we have about 40, 60w incandescent bulbs that are each lighted 4 hours per day. That's 40 x 60 x 4 = 9.6 kwhs (i.e., kilowatt hours) hours per day, or 3,504 kwhs per year.

At $0.11 per kwhr, the total cost for electricity for those 40 incandescent bulbs = 3504 x $0.11 = $385.44 per year.

Cost of electricity for 40, 9 watt LEDs =(9w/60w) x $385.44 = $57.816 per year. That will produce an annual saving on electricity of $385.44 - $57.816 = $327.625

Assume a 60 w incandescent costs $0.11, while a 9 w LED costs $60.00. So 40 incandescents costs $20 and 40 LEDs costs $2400.

Replacing the 40, 60w bulbs with 40, 9w LED will cost me an additional $2,400. For me to break even on this bulb replacement, the LEDs will have to NOT burnout or break for $2400 / $327.625 = 7.325 years, or more than 7 years 3 months.

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Foxfyre wrote:

We use CFLs in our office light fixture now, but don't really like them, find it difficult to read by them, and we supplement them with incandescent bulbs in our desk lamps.

Interesting.

What kind of CFLs are those?

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ican711nm wrote:

For me to break even on this bulb replacement, the LEDs will have to NOT burnout or break for $2400 / $327.625 = 7.325 years, or more than 7 years 3 months.

LED lightbulbs should last for up to 100,000 hours. If you use them for 4 hours every day, a LED lightbulb should last about 68 years.

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old europe wrote:

Foxfyre wrote:
We use CFLs in our office light fixture now, but don't really like them, find it difficult to read by them, and we supplement them with incandescent bulbs in our desk lamps.

Interesting.

What kind of CFLs are those?

I dunno. They're little swirly bulbs that replaced the incandescent bulbs in the ceiling light/fan assembly. They were supposed to put out as much light as the incandescent bulbs--equivalent lumens--but neither my husband nor I believe that they do. We didn't need the supplemental lamps much when we had incandescent bulbs in the light fixture. They're pretty expensive - more than $7/each I think as opposed to a buck or less for an incandescent bulb. We got them at the grocery store though--there are probably places to buy better bulbs more economically.

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Ah. Do they look like this:

http://selectroclash.files.wordpress.com/2007/04/cfl_light_bulb.jpg

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we used a lot of those in our new house. Probably 20+. Hoping to save the Earth one bulb at a time.

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Yeah.... as I said, when I was looking for CFLs in the States, those spirally ones were the only ones I could find.

I kinda prefer these ones here... Look nicer in open lamps, and seem to give a way nicer light. Not too expensive either.

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That's what they look like all right. Expensive little buggers they are too but at least I don't feel like the electric meter is whirring when we have them on for hours and hours at a time. It's a bit extreme to go to Germany to shop for light bulbs though. Maybe we can hope we'll catch up to your better thing here soon.

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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

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