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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 07:51 am
Mortkat wrote:
Is it because Pauling did not graduate from Oregon State but rather Oregon Agricultural College.....

In the 137 years since it's founding as a Land Grant College, Oregon State University was in fact once known as Oregon Agricultural College.

So what? It is the same institution. A fine one, by all indications. And Linus Pauling, a two time Nobel Prize winner, did indeed graduate from there.
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 08:12 am
Mortkat wrote:
I do not know of or have every read anything offered by Mr. Ed Brook....


A fact of no significance to this conversation, or anyone except yourself.
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 08:20 am
Revisiting Walter's post:

Quote:
Ed Brook, a professor of geosciences at Oregon State University, who analysed the research, said: "Not long ago we thought that previous ice studies which go back about 500,000 years might be the best we could obtain. Now we have a glimpse into the past of up to 650,000 years, and we believe it may be possible to go as much as one million years or more."

He added: "The levels of primary greenhouse gases such as methane, carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide are up dramatically since the Industrial Revolution, at a speed and magnitude that the Earth has not seen in hundreds of thousands of years. There is now no question this is due to human influence."
Source

I think it is wonderful that we have real, actual scientists on the job performing the hard work of getting to the bottom of these issues. Where would we be without them?
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Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 06:28 pm
650,000 years is 1% (one-per-cent) of the total years elapsed since deinosaurs tramped around the planet!!!!

What can this professor hope to prove with his 1% 'specially since at the time of the big lizards our planet's atmosphere had CO2 levels FAR FAR higher than TODAY????
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 06:45 pm
Louise_R_Heller wrote:
at the time of the big lizards our planet's atmosphere had CO2 levels FAR FAR higher than TODAY


Now, how would you know that? You're not that old, are you?
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Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 06:51 pm
The atmospheric composition of our planet is known within reasonable confidence intervals all the way back to 4.5 billion years ago ---

Maybe "Old Europe" is older than that?? Smile
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 06:52 pm
source?
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Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 06:58 pm
Source? Where do I start, that the earth is a sphere? Have you no internet lookup sources -- - or are you too, too lazy to look it up under "paleogeology"????
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 07:00 pm
Make claims, provide sources. That's how to play the game.
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Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 07:01 pm
Got to run, OE, but FYI I'm a biologist by training.....

Oxygen came much later, the planet was mostly methane, CO2 and other greenhouse gases for most of its existence --- will look it up and come back with links tomorrow if you're incapable of finding any SmileSmile

edit to post script the planet's atmosphere was... etc

idiotproofing the text Smile
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old europe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 07:03 pm
Oh, you mean before life actually began to evolve on this planet? Well, you might be right. Glad the climate has changed since. But then, you were talking about the days of the dinosaurs, right?
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Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 07:09 pm
http://zelos.zeit.de/bilder/2005/48/aktuell_online/teaser_artikel/kursbuch162_200.jpg




Ritter, Tod und Teufel ......Smile
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 08:24 pm
louise : is that the "kursbuch" for the federal german railways ? hbg
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2005 12:45 am
Louise_R_Heller wrote:
http://zelos.zeit.de/bilder/2005/48/aktuell_online/teaser_artikel/kursbuch162_200.jpg




Ritter, Tod und Teufel ......Smile


Actually, there's nothing at all related to climate in this edition of Kursbuch, edition N° 162, but glad you mentioned it.
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Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2005 07:40 pm
Sorry! Of COURSE there's nothing about the climate or about the trains in that edition!

I was being very esoteric. Also I liked the cover very much. Sorry for the confusion.
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Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2005 09:22 pm
Louise R. Heller's comment on the necessity to refer to Paleogeology is well taken.

earth.usc.edu/geo/150/variability/co2.html


There were two items that caught my attention more than anything else in this link.

l. MOST OF THE DISCUSSIONS ON VARIOUS ITEMS ENDED IN QUESTIONS. THERE WAS NO CONSENSUS.

2. THE WARMING EFFECTS OF THE SUN WERE AGAIN BROUGHT FORWARD AS A POSSIBLE AGENT IN GLOBAL WARMING.
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Louise R Heller
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2005 10:33 pm
Thank you Mortkat, but could you please re-post the link?

As promised reverting with info for Old Europe

*****************
Centre for Atmospheric Science, University of Cambridge
Information provided by Dr Glenn Carver. Email: [email protected]
*****************

Contacting the above-named professor will give you detailed historical series for our planet's atmospheric composition.
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Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Mon 28 Nov, 2005 11:01 pm
I usually make copies of my links, Louise_R_Heller, but for some reason, I cannot locate the correct link at this time.

However, I can tell you that according to the research done by the prestigious National Academy of Sciences, "uncertainty" is the key word in most of the so called predictions concerning "global warming"; its precise genesis and its effects on the earth's weather.

Dr. Sallie L. Baliunas, who was the Deputy Director of the Mount Wilson Observatory and has devoted her life's work to the study of the sun's electromagnetic effects can be easily found on Google. She is one of the main proponents of the Sun's increased solar magnetism.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 03:25 pm
Quote:
Global Hot Air
J. Bradford DeLong
November 29, 2005


J. Bradford DeLong, professor of economics at the University of California at Berkeley, was assistant U.S. treasury secretary during the Clinton administration.

The Kyoto Treaty on controlling climate change was, as Harvard professor Rob Stavins puts it, "too little, too fast." On one hand, because it covered only those countries projected to emit roughly half of the world's greenhouse-gas emissions by mid-century, it was not an effective long-run safeguard against the dangers of global warming. On the other hand, because it required significant and expensive short-run cuts in emissions by industrial countries, it threatened to impose large immediate costs on the American, European and Japanese economies. In short, the Kyoto agreement meant lots of short-term pain for little long-run gain.

The European Union and American economists in the Clinton administration argued for passage of the Kyoto Treaty only by creating models for something that wasn't the Kyoto Treaty. They projected that developing countries would enter the Kyoto framework at some point, and would trade their rights to emit CO2 and other greenhouse gases to the United States and Europe in return for development aid.

But, all these years later, I have yet to meet anyone who knows what they are talking about who is prepared to defend Kyoto as a substantive global public policy. "It was a way of getting the ball rolling," on climate change, say some. "It was a way of waking up the world to the seriousness of the problem," say others.

Under neither of these interpretations can those who negotiated and signed the Kyoto Treaty be said to have served the world well. Of course, the world has been served a lot worse since. President George W. Bush sided with his vice president, Dick Cheney, in denying that a global-warming problem even exists (his treasury secretary, Paul O'Neill, and his administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, Christine Whitman, disagreed). This has probably cost the world a decade of wasted time in developing a policy to deal with the problem, particularly given that intentional inaction is likely to continue until Bush's term is finished.

But the political cards will be reshuffled, and there will be a new deal on global warming, when America next elects a president in November 2008. By 2009, the U.S. may have a State Department willing to speak up again. Unless we are extraordinarily fortunate and learn that climatologists have overlooked some enormously important channels of carbon sequestration, the models predicting global warming will still be grimly accurate in 2009.

When the time comes to revisit international policies on global warming, two things should happen. First, the world's industrial core must create incentives for the developing world to industrialize along an environmentally friendly, C02- and CH4 -light, path. Slow growth of greenhouse-gas emissions in rapidly growing economies must be accompanied by credible promises to deliver massive amounts of assistance in the mighty tasks of industrialization, education, and urbanization that China, India, Mexico, Brazil and many other developing countries face.

Second, the world's industrial core must create incentives for its energy industries to undertake the investments in new technologies that will move us by mid-century to an economic structure that is light on carbon emissions and heavy on carbon sequestration. Providing the proper incentives for effective research and development will not be easy. Public programs work less well when the best route to the goal?-in this case, the most promising post-carbon energy technologies?-is uncertain. Private R&D is difficult to encourage when investors suspect that success would lead the fruits of their work to be taken by some form of eminent domain and used throughout the world with little compensation.

The world could continue to close its eyes to global warming and hope for the best: a slightly warmer climate that produces as many winners (on the Siberian, Northern European and Canadian prairies) as losers (in already-hot regions that become hotter and drier), and that the Gulf Stream continues warming Europe, the monsoons are not disrupted, and that the Ganges delta is not drowned by stronger typhoons. Or perhaps we are hoping that the "we" whose interests are taken into account when important decisions are made will not be the "we" who are among the big losers. Perhaps we will continue to close our eyes.

But our chances of ensuring a more sustainable world would be higher if we had not allowed ourselves to be blinded for the past decade by the combination of the public relations stunt known as the Kyoto Treaty and the idiocy-as-usual known as the Bush administration.

Copyright: Project Syndicate, 2005.
http://www.tompaine.com/articles/20051129/global_hot_air.php
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Nov, 2005 03:36 pm
Brad deLong wrote:
Our chances of ensuring a more sustainable world would be higher if we had not allowed ourselves to be blinded for the past decade by the combination of the public relations stunt known as the Kyoto Treaty and the idiocy-as-usual known as the Bush administration.

That's why I like Brad deLong.
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