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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Nov, 2005 08:23 pm
This paragraph OE
Quote:
Michele St. Martin, a spokeswoman for the White House Council on Environmental Quality, took exception with Bates' criticism, saying that President Bush in 2002 set forth a plan to reduce national greenhouse gas emissions by 18 percent by 2012.
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username
 
  1  
Reply Mon 21 Nov, 2005 10:31 pm
When is an "18% cut" actually a 12% growth? Only in the Bush White House.


An analysis from the Pew Center on Global Climate Change:

http://www.pewclimate.org/policy_center/analyses/response_bushpolicy.cfm

"A new climate change strategy for the United States announced by President Bush on February 14, 2002, sets a voluntary "greenhouse gas intensity" target for the nation, expands existing programs encouraging companies to voluntarily report and reduce their greenhouse gas emissions, and proposes increased federal funding for climate change science and technology development. Some elements of the Administration's strategy may provide additional incentive to companies to voluntarily reduce greenhouse gas emissions. However, the Administration's target - an 18 percent reduction in emissions intensity between now and 2012 - will allow actual emissions to increase 12 percent over the same period. Emissions will continue to grow at nearly the same rate as at present.

Greenhouse Gas Intensity Target

Different types of targets can be used to limit or reduce emissions. One approach is an "absolute" target requiring that emissions be reduced by a specified amount. This is the approach taken by both the United Nations Framework Convention on Climate Change (UNFCCC), which set non-binding emissions targets for developed countries and was ratified by the U.S. Senate; and by the Kyoto Protocol, which sets binding targets but was rejected by the Administration.

The Administration's strategy instead sets a target for greenhouse gas intensity: the ratio of greenhouse gas emissions (GHGs) to economic output expressed in gross domestic product (GDP). This approach minimizes economic impact by allowing emissions to rise or fall with economic output; however, it provides no assurance that a given level of environmental protection will be achieved since the degree of environmental protection is measured in relation to GDP. Theoretically a GHG intensity target can lead to a net reduction in emissions, but only if it is sufficiently stringent. The Administration's target - an 18 percent improvement in GHG intensity over the next decade - allows a substantial increase in net emissions.

In 1990, total U.S. GHG emissions were 1,671 million metric tons in carbon equivalents (MMTCE) or 6,128 million metric tons in carbon dioxide equivalents (MMTCO2E). As of 2000, total U.S. GHG emissions were 14.1 percent above 1990 levels, or 1,907 MMTCE (6,994 MMTCO2E).

Although total emissions continued to rise, greenhouse gas intensity in fact fell over the last two decades. Contributing factors include energy efficiency improvements, the introduction of new information technologies, and the continued transition from heavy industry to less energy-intensive, service-oriented industries. In the 1980s greenhouse gas intensity fell by 21 percent. During the 1990s greenhouse gas intensity fell by 16 percent. The Administration's strategy aims to cut greenhouse gas intensity to a level of 151 metric tons carbon equivalent per million dollars of GDP by 2012, 18 percent below its present level. While this would represent a very modest improvement over the "business as usual" emissions projections for 2012 used by the Administration, it appears to continue the same trend of GHG-intensity reductions and GHG emissions increases experienced over the last two decades.

In terms of actual emissions, total U.S. GHG emissions would grow 12 percent by 2012, resulting in GHG emissions of 2,155 MMTCE (7,900 MMTCO2E). Emissions in 2012 would be 30 percent above 1990 levels (1990 is often used as a "base year" because the Framework Convention on Climate Change called for industrialized countries to return to their 1990 levels by 2000). The Administration proposes to achieve its GHG intensity target entirely through voluntary measures. Prior experience has shown that despite the existence of a range of voluntary government programs to encourage early reductions, despite significant actions by individual companies, and despite improvements in greenhouse gas intensity, emissions continue to rise as these gains are outpaced by economic expansion, changing consumer preferences, and population growth. Further, because the target (1) is voluntary, (2) represents only a slight change from the "business as usual" path, and (3) does not appear to advance specific policy solutions, it is unclear how this goal will be translated into actual reductions in GHG intensity across various sectors of the economy. Previous voluntary GHG targets, including the UNFCCC's target of returning to 1990 levels of GHG emissions by 2000, have not been met by the United States."



How Orwellian. Calling an increse a decrease. Karl Rove has really outdone himself on this one.
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Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 12:24 am
Username bloviates on and on but offers NO ABSOLUTE PROOF that CO2 is the agent which MAY be raising global temperatures; offers NO ABSOLUTE PROOF that computer models are not imperfect and limited by uncertainties; offers no ABSOLUTE PROOF that changes in solar magnetism are not also the cause of "global warming"' offers NO ABSOLUTE PROOF that major climate swings did not occur long before the industrial age; offers NO ABSOLUTE PROOF that the findings of the National Academy of Sciences in 2001 were not valid in its prediction that there was a great deal of UNCERTAINTY attached to the predictions of global warming made by the IPCC; offers NO ABSOLUTE PROOF that there was NOT a strong surface warming between the 1890's and the 1940's before significant CO2 emissions; offers NO ABSOLUTE PROOF that the surface measurements of temperature are flawed by the "heat island effect": offers NO ABSOLUTE PROOF that the Satellite temperature measurements which give a much more reduced temperature rise than surface measurements are not definitive; AND MOST IMPORTANT, OFFERS NO ABSOLUTE PROOF THAT HYDROLOGICAL FEEDBACKS MIGHT DIMINISH WARMING TRENDS INSTEAD OF INCREASING THEM.

Indeed, all the computer models ASSUME that water-vapor feedbacks produce a large gain in global warming. If this ASSUMPTION is untrue then every model EXAGGERATES warming at the lower level of the atmosphere.

My previous posts on this thread cover the points above and give references.
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Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Tue 22 Nov, 2005 12:32 am
Just Wonders clearly points out that the US Senate voted unanimously in 1997 against the Kyoto Protocol--95-0. Anyone who reads the reports on that vote knows that one of the main reasons for the 95-0 vote AGAINST ratifying the Kyoto Protocol was because China and India would be exempt from the provisions of the Protocol.

I am very much afraid that username and Old Europe do not realize that the "developing nations" two of which are defined as China and India in the Protocol turned down by the Senate, would spew as much co2 into the air as the USA by the year 2020 even if the USA eviscerated their economy by strict application of "reforms" for a "disease"( global warming) whose etiology and provenance is not established.
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Nov, 2005 04:50 am
Quote:
Greenhouse gases at highest in millennia
November 25, 2005

WASHINGTON, D.C.

link said a major new study that let scientists peer back in time at ''greenhouse gases" that can help fuel global warming. By analyzing tiny air bubbles preserved in Antarctic ice for millennia, a team of European researchers highlighted how people are dramatically influencing the buildup of these gases. (AP)
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Nov, 2005 04:53 am
Quote:
Greenhouse gases at highest in millennia
November 25, 2005

WASHINGTON, D.C.

There is more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere today than at any point during the past 650,000 years, said a major new study that let scientists peer back in time at ''greenhouse gases" that can help fuel global warming. By analyzing tiny air bubbles preserved in Antarctic ice for millennia, a team of European researchers highlighted how people are dramatically influencing the buildup of these gases. (AP)
link
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Nov, 2005 05:01 am
blatham, quoting AP, wrote:
Greenhouse gases at highest in millennia
November 25, 2005

WASHINGTON, D.C.

There is more carbon dioxide in the atmosphere today than at any point during the past 650,000 years, said a major new study that let scientists peer back in time at ''greenhouse gases" that can help fuel global warming.

I'm not surprised. Nobody is disputing that carbon dioxide is accumulating in the atmosphere, and 650,000 years is short on a geological timescale.
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Steve 41oo
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Nov, 2005 05:54 am
Was 2005 the year the world accepted climate change to be anthropogenic?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/story/0,3605,1650444,00.html

Ed Brook, a climate scientist at Oregon State University said the rise in greenhouse gases ... was a stark indication of the influence industry was having on the environment. "The levels of primary greenhouse gases such as methane, carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide are up dramatically since the industrial revolution, at a speed and magnitude that the earth has not seen in hundreds of thousands of years. There is now no question this is due to human influence."
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Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2005 04:14 pm
Blatham tells us that A EUROPEAN group finds "Greenhouse gas at the highest levels"> When I see the study REPLICATED by a US group of scientists, then I will believe it. Blotham would have us accept the study without understanding that European Scientists are into political twisting of facts. Proof? Look at the IPCC results.

Furthermore, there is no ABSOLUTE PROOF that temperature increases are due to CO2 alone. The activity of the sun, which is as magnetically active as it has been for the past 400 years MAY INDEED BE THE MAIN REASON FOR THE HEATING OF THE EARTH.

I have seen NO evidence to show that the sun's energy output is NOT involved in the slight heating of the earth. If anyone knows of such evidence, I would be happy to consider it.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2005 04:28 pm
Quote:
Ed Brook, a professor of geosciences at Oregon State University, who analysed the research, said: "Not long ago we thought that previous ice studies which go back about 500,000 years might be the best we could obtain. Now we have a glimpse into the past of up to 650,000 years, and we believe it may be possible to go as much as one million years or more."

He added: "The levels of primary greenhouse gases such as methane, carbon dioxide and nitrous oxide are up dramatically since the Industrial Revolution, at a speed and magnitude that the Earth has not seen in hundreds of thousands of years. There is now no question this is due to human influence."
Source
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Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2005 04:35 pm
Walter Hinteler_ I am sure you know all about Germany and German Universities. I respect German scholarship. I am in awe of German HIstoriography but I do know a little more about American Universities than you do.

Oregon State is a FIFTH RATE University with a barely viable Science Program. I do not know of or have every read anything offered by Mr. Ed Brook, I am sure that he is sincere in his statements.

Get me some quotes from Harvard or MIT and then I' ll be interested.

You do know, of course, that the quality of the Educational Institution and the credentials of the person who makes the comments are critical, do you not?
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2005 04:40 pm
I'd thought this to be a thread about 'global warming' and not one where you teach me about rankings of unversities.

Be assured that I have at least similar or better sources when I wanted to learn something about that than your unasked comments.
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2005 04:49 pm
global warming
imo the best site dealing with global warning and changes in global weather, is the ...BBC - WEATHER AND GLOBAL WARMING...website. it is very detailed and it'll take time to wade through all the information provided. anyone willing to spend the time to read through it will have to give them credit for their work of putting all the information together. it's pretty difficult to refute their conclusions, i think ; but you'll have to do some work if you want to agree or disagree with them. hbg
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Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2005 04:49 pm
Then supply the better sources,please. Let's not waste time on a comment from Oregon State!!
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hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2005 04:56 pm
mortkat is looking for "absolute proof" ... of course, "absolute proof" will be obtained when we are all dead. i prefer not to wait that long - time is rather precious. hbg
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2005 04:56 pm
Either you are really so stupid or you can't hide it.
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Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2005 05:01 pm
Hamburger- A great link- thank you-I especially noted two things in it.

First, AS I HAVE ALREADY POSTED, THERE WAS A LARGE AMOUNT OF WARMING FROM 1910 TO 1940, THEN A COOLING( so much so that some scientists were predicting a new Ice-Age) then a warming again.

co2 emissions were insignificant in the early 20th century YET SUBSTANTIAL WARMING OCCURED ANYWAY.


I also liked sceptics comment by Dr.Stott who said, in effect, that we cannot possibly forecast the future climate since there is a great difficulty in understanding the NATURAL CLIMATE CHANGES, HOW CAN WE THEN UNDERSTAND THE HUMAN EFFECT.

A good link, Hamburger
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Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Sat 26 Nov, 2005 05:03 pm
Don't you know that you demean yourself, Walter, when you descend to personal comments? Look, take my posts and REBUT THEM> Concentrate(TRY) on the substance. SHOW why it is wrong. Give Facts, figures, etc.

Personal comments are childish!!
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kelticwizard
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 12:39 am
Mortkat wrote:
Oregon State is a FIFTH RATE University with a barely viable Science Program.

Linus Pauling, winner of two Nobel Prizes, graduated from Oregon State University. His work essentially provides the basis for modern chemistry.
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Mortkat
 
  1  
Reply Sun 27 Nov, 2005 12:56 am
Keltic Wizard's panegryic for Pauling is so short. Why? Is it because Pauling did not graduate from Oregon State but rather Oregon Agricultural College years and years ago( 1922) before Oregon sunk to its present level. Besides, Pauling became a great scientist during his post graduate work in a great instituion--C I T.

Keltic Wizard usually doesn't get it right.
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