Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

Well- I should think the delegates in Bali are just about emerging from the sack about now along with the dancing girls, croupiers, musicians and bartenders.

I wish I was a delegate. I'd risk the exhaustion and all that filling in of expenses claims.

I see ican is suggesting that someone needs a basic course in chemistry and physics, apparently because that person does not share ican's deep understanding of Henry's Law and what it tells us about CO2 in the atmosphere and the oceans.

Did you happen to see this sentence in the citation on Henry's Law you so thoughtfully provided, ican?

"It also only applies for solutions where the solvent does not react chemically with the gas being dissolved. A common example of a gas that does react with the solvent is carbon dioxide, which rapidly forms hydrated carbon dioxide and then carbonic acid (H2CO3) with water."

Did you happen to see that, hm, ican? Perhaps you might consider a refresher course, hmmm, ican?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry%27s_law
It should also be noted the Henry's Law is a limiting law that only applies for dilute enough solutions. The range of concentrations in which it applies becomes narrower the more the system diverges from non-ideal behavior. Roughly speaking, that is the more chemically different the solute is from the solvent.
It also only applies for solutions where the solvent does not react chemically with the gas being dissolved. A common example of a gas that does react with the solvent is carbon dioxide, which rapidly forms hydrated carbon dioxide and then carbonic acid (H2CO3) with water.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry%27s_law
...
Temperature dependence of the Henry constant
...
Because solubility of gases is decreasing with increasing temperature, the partial pressure a given gas concentration has in liquid must increase. While heating water (saturated with nitrogen) from 25°C to 95°C the solubility will decrease to about 43% of its initial value. This can be verified when heating water in a pot. Small bubbles evolve and rise, long before the water reaches boiling temperature. Similarly, carbon dioxide from a carbonated drink escapes much faster when the drink is not cooled because of the increased partial pressure of CO2 in higher temperatures. Partial pressure of CO2 in seawater doubles with every 16 K increase in temperature.
...

Is it warmer than usual in Bali these days? Hi Spendi.

Global warming increases the temperature of seawater, so the CO2 in seawater escapes faster when the sea water is warmed by global warming.

Foxy wrote-

Quote:

Is it warmer than usual in Bali these days? Hi Spendi.

Hiya Foxy. I've missed you you know. Fighting alone is a bit tough. You have to make yourself unpopular.

It's nosh time in Bali now, The handouts have been handed out now and the news reports based on them filed so let the evening commence.

We will gloss over the fact that they are supposed to have caused more pollution with their junket in the tropical paradise than a nation like Chad can manage in a whole year. And they haven't finished yet. Not by any manner of means.

Is it warmer than usual in Bali these days? Hi Spendi.

Are there really 15,000 delegates there???

Calculations suggest flying the 15,000 politicians, civil servants, green campaigners and television crews into Indonesia will generate the equivalent of 100,000 tonnes of extra CO2. That is similar to the entire annual emissions of the African state of Chad.

Foxfyre wrote:

Is it warmer than usual in Bali these days? Hi Spendi.

Very tough place to go: far flung, hot like inferno and on the verge to being drowned by sea rise. See for yourself here.
The 15,000 climate delegates to Bali deserve applause for their sacrifice.

georgeob1 wrote:

Are there really 15,000 delegates there???

That would be an average of 80 delegates per nation. If that is considered too much ...

Walter Hinteler wrote:

georgeob1 wrote:

Are there really 15,000 delegates there???

That would be an average of 80 delegates per nation. If that is considered too much ...

Excellent arithmetic Walter, but you miss the point. 80 delegates would be a large number for this country or China or India or even Germany. Think about Luxemborg, Andorra, Monaco, Iceland - or any of the tiny nations of Africa or the Persian Gulf.

it's a bit like the Children's Crusade.

ican711nm wrote:

Global warming increases the temperature of seawater, so the CO2 in seawater escapes faster when the sea water is warmed by global warming.

So then your claim that global warming would decrease CO2 is nothing but BS.. It took you a while to realize it but now it seems even you know you were making claims that violate science.

Excellent arithmetic Walter, but you miss the point. 80 delegates would be a large number for this country or China or India or even Germany. Think about Luxemborg, Andorra, Monaco, Iceland - or any of the tiny nations of Africa or the Persian Gulf.

it's a bit like the Children's Crusade.

In recognition of the importance the United States attaches to this conference, the White House is sending Chairman of the White House Council on Environmental Quality James L. Connaughton to join in leading the Ministerial sessions December 12-14. Chairman Connaughton is a senior advisor to President Bush, and his personal representative to the Major Economies Process on Energy Security and Climate Change.

The White House is also sending U.S. Trade Representative Ambassador Susan C. Schwab for a December 8-9 Trade Ministers meeting and Under Secretary of Treasury for International Affairs David H. McCormick for a December 10-11 Finance Ministers meeting.

Senior Climate Negotiator and Special Representative Dr. Harlan Watson will attend both weeks, and act as alternate to Dr. Dobriansky. Other senior U.S. representatives attending the Bali conference include Assistant Secretary of State for Oceans, Environment and Science Claudia A. McMurray, Assistant Secretary of Energy for Energy Efficiency and Renewable Energy Andrew Karsner, U.S. Ambassador to the European Union C. Boyden Gray, and U.S. Ambassador to Indonesia Cameron R. Hume.

Additional agencies to be represented include the Department of Agriculture; the U.S. Agency for International Development; Environmental Protection Agency; National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, U.S. Department of Commerce; the National Security Council; the White House Council on Environmental Quality; the White House Office of Science and Technology Policy; and members of Congress and congressional staff.

And you didn't bother to read the story of who they included in their total it seems.

Why should I?

15,000 is an entertainment, not a conference or a negotiation.

And consider what they achieved.