Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

hamburger wrote:

...

2)" the nation with the worlds highest per capita emitter of GHG "

that could easily be rectified by reducing the oil and gas exports from canada to the U.S.
since vice president cheney paid a visit to oil and gas rich alberta this summer and praised the canadian commitment to ensure the supply of those commodities to the u.S. , i don't think the vice president would be very happy if canada started to cut back on the flow . perhaps you might be happy to see the supplies cut and the oil price rising , but i guess you haven't told the V.P. yet .
(not that we mind receiving a fair price for those commodities) .

...

hbg

I don't think Canada fears the American GHG emissions enough to be willing to give up the revenue it gets from oil it sells to the USA.

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ican711nm wrote:

WHAT IS CAUSING THE EARTH TO WARM NOW?

WHAT CAUSED THE EARTH TO WARM IN THE PAST?

WHAT CAUSED THE EARTH TO COOL IN THE PAST?

WHAT IS CAUSING MARS TO WARM?

WHAT CAUSED MARS TO WARM IN THE PAST?

WHAT CAUSED MARS TO COOL IN THE PAST?

Sunspot density cycles?

Changes in eliptical orbit of earth around the sun?

Changes in distance of earth from sun over successive summers in its northern hemisphere?

Changes in eliptical orbit of Mars around the sun?

Changes in distance of Mars from sun over successive summers in its northern hemisphere?

Increase of CO2 in earth's atmosphere over the last 100 years?

Number of volcanoes erupting over the last 100 years?

Why is the Antarctic icepack expanding, while the arctic icepack is shrinking?

Penguins. Penguins penguins penguins.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

ican711nm wrote:
WHAT IS CAUSING THE EARTH TO WARM NOW?

WHAT CAUSED THE EARTH TO WARM IN THE PAST?

WHAT CAUSED THE EARTH TO COOL IN THE PAST?

WHAT IS CAUSING MARS TO WARM?

WHAT CAUSED MARS TO WARM IN THE PAST?

WHAT CAUSED MARS TO COOL IN THE PAST?

Sunspot density cycles?

Changes in eliptical orbit of earth around the sun?

Changes in distance of earth from sun over successive summers in its northern hemisphere?

Changes in eliptical orbit of Mars around the sun?

Changes in distance of Mars from sun over successive summers in its northern hemisphere?

Increase of CO2 in earth's atmosphere over the last 100 years?

Number of volcanoes erupting over the last 100 years?

Why is the Antarctic icepack expanding, while the arctic icepack is shrinking?
Penguins. Penguins penguins penguins.

Gee! I've been misinformed! I was told that on earth it is all caused by cycles in Polar Bear anal gas emissions. ... Do they have penguines on Mars?

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Yes, they are called Marpenguinians. They hold the key to the survival of life on earth, since they made it to mars.

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Steve 41oo wrote:

Yes, they are called Marpenguinians. They hold the key to the survival of life on earth, since they made it to mars.

Where will all those keys to our survival go when Mars gets too hot for 'em?

I'm interested in investing in the best planetary acreage!

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ican wrote :

Quote:

I don't think Canada fears the American GHG emissions enough to be willing to give up the revenue it gets from oil it sells to the USA.

right you are ! love to see the money rolling in :wink:

btw the conservative alberta (provincial) government just yesterday increased the amout of royalties they'll be collecting from the "oilpatch" corporations . there was a bit of squealing but it seems that the profits of the oil and gas companies are plentyful to pay this . experts had predicted that the oil stocks would fall quite a bit but they either just dropped fractionaally or increased .

imo the best way to reduce pollution is a high oil price ; that would allow everyone - business and industry - to search out ways of squeezing more energy out of every barrel of oil - and similar commodities - and likely reduce pollution in the process .
i think many industries have already made much progress in getting more energy out of each barrel of oil , but i also think they'll be able to do even better in the future .
hbg
hbg

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That policy is known as hoping to press higher up the asymptote than the giant oil refiners have somehow failed to do so far and that is a gross insult to their intelligence and application.

I am inclined to think that your hopes are a religious belief.

The Yorkshire mill owners used to weep to see water passing the mill-wheel and the hydro-electric schemes were born of their misery and frustration.

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hamburger wrote:

ican wrote :

Quote:
I don't think Canada fears the American GHG emissions enough to be willing to give up the revenue it gets from oil it sells to the USA.

right you are ! love to see the money rolling in :wink:

btw the conservative alberta (provincial) government just yesterday increased the amout of royalties they'll be collecting from the "oilpatch" corporations . there was a bit of squealing but it seems that the profits of the oil and gas companies are plentyful to pay this . experts had predicted that the oil stocks would fall quite a bit but they either just dropped fractionaally or increased .

imo the best way to reduce pollution is a high oil price ; that would allow everyone - business and industry - to search out ways of squeezing more energy out of every barrel of oil - and similar commodities - and likely reduce pollution in the process .
i think many industries have already made much progress in getting more energy out of each barrel of oil , but i also think they'll be able to do even better in the future .

hbg

Another way is for America to develop its own oil fileds (e.g., ANWR) to offset the high cost of imported oil and its consequential high cost of energy production. Individuals and company's would then be able to afford to invest much more in the development of more efficient transport and other machines.

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i am not speaking of the oil refineries but the better utilization of the energy input .
i understand that currently "regular" gasoline engines "waste" appr, 60 % of the input energy . there are already more advanced engines that have a lower power loss ; i believe an example are turbo-charged engines .
there is also the use of exhaust gas to produce additional output rather than just discharging the exhaust gas .
the modern ship and airplane engines are far more efficient than those produced just twenty years ago . is there any reason to believe that the maximum point of output has already been reached ?
from what i read , more efficient energy use is an ongoing process .
hbg

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Of course it is. That's progress. 99.9% is more efficient than 99.8%.

Obviously.

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ican711nm wrote:

Another way is for America to develop its own oil fileds (e.g., ANWR) to offset the high cost of imported oil and its consequential high cost of energy production. Individuals and company's would then be able to afford to invest much more in the development of more efficient transport and other machines.

Please explain to me how much cheaper oil would be if we drilled in ANWR?

The oil companies still SELL the oil to Americans, it's not like the OIL in ANWR is free for all Americans, it gets sold to us by the oil companies. Last time I checked the price difference in local crude oil and oil in the Middle East was about $2.

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Voting
Spendius:

How in the world could considering my vote be construed to be "pompus"? I consider my vote another tool I have to voice my protest at an out of control Government (either party).

Is that my only tool? No. I write my senators and representative. (probably to no avail) I write letters and editorials to local papers which may or may not, at least, try to get people thinking about matters.

Now, with all this ferver, it would be nice if I could find a candidate I could "get behind". Alas.....

Consider this: With Congress at a whopping 11% approval rate, why would any party actually consider offering as a candidate for President a member of that miserably performing group? Defies logic.....

Halfback

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Some years ago I recollect reading a book by a gentleman named Sun Bear who formed his own tribe in the Northwest.

He was a visionary and predicted many specific climatic changes that are we are experiencing presently. He also published a quarterly magazine.

The book he wrote was called "Black Dawn, Bright Day". Anyone else read it.

If so, would like your take on it.

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Hb-

I didn't say that your statement was unconditionally pompous. I just said that it sounded pompous from the point of view of those who deliberately abstain from voting.

From your other comments it is surprising you do. When you vote you have "got behind" one of the "miserably performing group". You thus encourage them for more of the same.

If there is a large amount of oil beneath the arctic doesn't that prove that it was once warm there?

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spendius wrote:

If there is a large amount of oil beneath the arctic doesn't that prove that it was once warm there?

Yes it may, but you do understand plate tectonics right? The artic used to be much closer to the equator (it gets warmer as you get closer).

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That's a possibility of course. But it is also a possibility that the whole earth was warmer isn't it.

If the proof that the artcic plate was once on the equator is that there are fossils of tropical vegetation found there is that not teleological and, as such, similar to the argument for an intelligent designer?

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spendius wrote:

That's a possibility of course. But it is also a possibility that the whole earth was warmer isn't it.

If the proof that the artcic plate was once on the equator is that there are fossils of tropical vegetation found there is that not teleological and, as such, similar to the argument for an intelligent designer?

You really ought not to allow sentences like these to escape your keyboard, spendi.

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spendius wrote:

That's a possibility of course. But it is also a possibility that the whole earth was warmer isn't it.

If the proof that the artcic plate was once on the equator is that there are fossils of tropical vegetation found there is that not teleological and, as such, similar to the argument for an intelligent designer?

Are you saying that the 'intelligent designer' purposefully had the current artic landmasses closer to the equator millions of years ago so that in the 20th centuary we'd have oil that millions have died over, the earth is being polluted over, etc?

Or did god want the United States to have some domestic oil in ANWR?

And we know that the earth was warmer in the past, and colder.

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I retract not one word of it.

Incidentally Bernie, as you often bring up the tobacco industry's PR campaigns, which I gather you approved of until quite recently, in such a way as to suggest that they were alone in being motivated by profit you might consider the following.

Between 1996 and 2006 (inc) £105.1 billion was spent on tobacco. All of that, is to all intents and purposes a direct tax. And it was household expenditure which, after the advertising ban, media couldn't get a share of. So media has a vested interest in discouraging smoking because this expenditure if not used for tobacco is redirected into products which it can get a cut out of. Such as fatty food, gardening products, ladies fashions and accoutrements and mechanical devices to render the long term survivor's lives easier.

£105 billion is a lot to play for. And puffed into the air as the smoke of dried leaves is probably not much more polluting than a small bush fire whereas the other stuff is what you AWGers are always complaining about despite allowing your own contributions to grow with the economy in general.

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mapie wrote-

Quote:

Are you saying that the 'intelligent designer' purposefully had the current artic landmasses closer to the equator millions of years ago so that in the 20th centuary we'd have oil that millions have died over, the earth is being polluted over, etc?

No. I said nothing like that. I was comparing beliefs derived from teleologies and wondering why one is believed and the other rejected.

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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

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