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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
hamburger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 19 Mar, 2007 03:30 pm
i suspect it would be a little difficult to manage the canadian "wilderness" using german forest management practices .
in germany , the forest ranger inspects the trees frequently and commands them to stand straight and upright ! :wink:
in canada it's : "just take it easy , bud !" .
hbg


a canadian wilderness area
http://www.thunderhook.com/smoothrock/graphics/bear2.jpg



ein deutscher wald (german forest)
http://galerie-herrmann.com/arts/guiraud/Die_Welt/Deutscher_Wald_Hirsch_gr.jpg

Shocked Laughing
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 01:01 am
Quote:
The Bush administration ran a systematic campaign to play down the dangers of climate change, demanding hundreds of politically motivated changes to scientific reports and muzzling a pre-eminent expert on global warming, Congress was told yesterday.
[...]
The Bush administration has moved to exercise direct control over environmental agencies by installing political appointees including Philip Cooney, a former oil industry lobbyist, as chief of staff of the Council on Environmental Quality, and a 23-year-old college drop-out who was made a public affairs officer at Nasa after working on Mr Bush's re-election campaign. Mr Cooney told the committee yesterday: "My sole loyalty was to the president and advancing the policies of his administration."

Documents released yesterday show that in 2003 Mr Cooney and other senior appointed officials imposed at least 181 changes to a strategic plan on climate change to play down the scientific consensus on global warming. They made another 113 alterations to minimise the human role in climate change, and inserted possible benefits of climate change. "These changes must be made," said a note in Mr Cooney's handwriting. "The language is mandatory."

Some of the statements deleted on Mr Cooney's instruction were non-controversial, such as: "Climate change has global consequences for human health and the environment." He also deleted references to models indicating that temperatures have been rising for the last 1,000 years. However, amid such deletions he chose to highlight a study funded by his former employer, the American Petroleum Institute.

Under heated questioning, Mr Cooney admitted yesterday that the changes were all intended to cast doubt over the impact of global warming. He denied they were directly coordinated with the White House but said he had regular conversations with a senior White House aide. "We got notes from them," Mr Cooney said.

[...]
Source
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 04:57 am
Thanks walter. Here's the NY Times piece on this..
Material Shows Weakening of Climate Reports

Quote:
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/20/washington/20climate.html?hp

from the guardian piece
Quote:
"my sole loyalty was to the President and advancing the policies of his administration"
Well, no kidding. Screw loyalty to anything like independence of scientific research. Phuck loyalty to the truth.

That anyone of you on this thread can continue to support or even defend this administration is deeply discouraging.
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McTag
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 05:33 am
Now come on, Bernie, don't get discouraged.

We're depending on you.

Smile
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 07:17 am
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 07:25 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Let's make this another Bush-bashing thread.


So you think that those reports in today's media are only written by Bush-haters?

It's even on the frrontpage of the washington Times

http://i3.tinypic.com/4idgcgn.jpg
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 07:30 am
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 07:35 am
Foxfyre wrote:
When is the last time you saw the NY Times or the Guardian print anything positive about President Bush lately?


I don't follow the NYT so intensively as I read the Guardian.

I suppose, there wasn't much positive to be reported from the English point of view.

Which isn't at all the point here.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 07:38 am
At least the Washington Times wrote the story so that the readers can see the conflict of interest that exists. Any scientist that is in Al Gore's camp and served as a consultant for his crap has to be considered at least a little suspect in having his own agenda which might not be completely above board either.

Do gotta go though.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 07:41 am
How good that the Petroleum Institute is a totally unbiased institution.

And someone really shouldn't take an environmental price by the Heinz Foundation - he should have refused it!
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Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 07:43 am
Foxfyre wrote:
When is the last time you saw the NY Times or the Guardian print anything positive about President Bush lately?

Very long ago. But if he really is the exceptionally bad president that some, including myself, think he is -- why "balance" criticism with something positive?

Foxfyre wrote:
But to blame HIM for understanding that there is a legitimate debate re global warming is nothing more than hate mongering and anybody with a brain ought to be able to see that.

Whether or not there is a legitimate debate about the existence of global warming, and whether or not President Bush understands anything, this isn't the charge against him. The charge is that he employs lobbyists with no scientific qualification to edit scientific reports. I am unable to see any hate mongering in that, and apologize for lacking a brain by your definition.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 07:48 am
Thomas, do you honestly think the President goes over these scientific reports and redlines stuff he wants taken out of them? You really don't think that do you?

But the President does have scientific advisors who tell him the problems with this point of view or that sort of information or something else that is controversial. And it is these people who are charged with getting it right whether or not they actually accomplish that.

You don't see any problem with the one scientist who is a chief advisor to Al Gores "An Inconvenient Truth" being the featured scientist on the front pages of the newspapers? You see that and still think he's being honest when he says he's being muzzled? You have no problem with that at all?

You aren't seeing much coverage of the witnesses who oppose his point of view.

And I am literally on the way out the door with my computer pack on my shoulder....See ya'll later.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 08:00 am
Foxfyre wrote:
You don't see any problem with the one scientist who is a chief advisor to Al Gores "An Inconvenient Truth" being the featured scientist on the front pages of the newspapers? You see that and still think he's being honest when he says he's being muzzled? You have no problem with that at all?


That should give the Washinton Times certainly some 'Foxfyre discredit points':

http://i14.tinypic.com/2rc5ybs.jpg
0 Replies
 
Thomas
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 08:01 am
Foxfyre wrote:
Thomas, do you honestly think the President goes over these scientific reports and redlines stuff he wants taken out of them? You really don't think that do you?

No I don't. As I outined in my last post, I think he hires scientifically unqualified oil industry lobbyists to do that.

Foxfyre wrote:
But the President does have scientific advisors who tell him the problems with this point of view or that sort of information or something else that is controversial. And it is these people who are charged with getting it right whether or not they actually accomplish that.

By this definition of "scientific advisor", the people who rewrote statements by scientists weren't scientific advisors. As I said, they were oil industry lobbyists without discernible qualifications in climatology.

Foxfyre wrote:
You don't see any problem with the one scientist who is a cheif advisor to Al Gores "An Inconvenient Truth" being the featured scientist on the front pages of the newspapers? You aren't seeing much coverage of the witnesses who oppose his point of view. You have no problem with that at all?

No, I don't necessarily see a problem with that, because James Hansen is one of the leading scientists on global warming. You can easily verify this by searching Google Scholar for his name. Given Hansen's reputation as a scientist, why shouldn't Gore seek his advice on a movie on global warming? And why shouldn't the newspapers feature him on the front pages? In my opinion, there's no reason why they shouldn't. In fact, I consider it a good idea.

But maybe this opinion of mine just provides further evidence of my lacking brain. This interesting hypothesis of yours certainly merits a controversial scientific debate.
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 12:39 pm
Thomas, your unusually one-sided stance on propriety and 'poltiical influence' is rather remarkable I think. Unless you REALLY hunt for it, you won't see the following in most of the mainstream drive by media. Why? Because this witness was held to the last after all the media had left. But then the drive by media left pretty much after Hansen testified because he gave them what they went for--something to bash George Bush with.

I think there are a few people left, however, who want the real story instead of just the one that fits their personal ideological agenda.

Spencer's opening statement was a revelation in how ALL administrations, not just George Bush, handle information released including that of government scientists. I think the only reason this was printed here is that Spencer is one of Alabama's own. I wish you could have heard at least his opening statement however. Emphasis here is mine:

Scientist cites pressure during Clinton years
Tuesday, March 20, 2007MARY ORNDORFF News Washington correspondent
WASHINGTON - Political interference by President Bush's administration into the science on global warming is under investigation by Congress, but an Alabama researcher testified Monday that there was interference during President Clinton's years, too.

"While you might think political influence on climate research programs started under the Bush administration, it simply isn't true," said Roy Spencer, a former NASA scientist now working at the University of Alabama in Huntsville.

Spencer, who is skeptical about how much impact humans have had on rising global temperatures, said he believed government funding of NASA's climate studies was at risk because his position was different from then-Vice President Al Gore's. He also said he avoided expressing his opinion publicly because of NASA's rules, and voluntarily resigned in fall 2001.

The House Government Reform Committee is investigating the editing of a scientific climate change report by an official in the Bush White House and, separately, the speaking limits placed on another NASA scientist, global warming expert James Hansen.

"The public and Congress need access to the best possible science to inform the policy debate about how to protect the planet from irreversible changes," said Rep. Henry Waxman, D-Calif., the panel's chairman.

During the confrontational hearing, Democrats accused Philip Cooney, a former oil industry lobbyist, of watering down the conclusions of a climate change report with a series of edits designed to raise doubt about the certainty of global warming. Cooney, who was then with the White House Council on Environmental Quality, testified his recommended changes were in line with an earlier report from the National Academy of Sciences.

Also, Hansen had to testify alongside a former NASA public affairs officer who two years ago, at age 24, prevented Hansen from doing a national interview about global warming.

"Why are public affairs offices staffed by political appointees?" Hansen asked. "They should not be forcing scientists to parrot propaganda."

Republicans on the panel argued that Hansen's opinions and science were cited 1,400 times in news stories last year, so he was hardly stifled. But Hansen said that was only after the NASA administrator stepped in and allowed him to speak freely.

Republicans also complained that their witness, Spencer, was unfairly placed last on the agenda and could not testify side-by-side with Hansen. Spencer was called to the witness table more than three hours after the hearing had started and the once-crowded room was nearly empty.

Spencer said government funding for climate research tends to favor "climate catastrophe" as opposed to "climate stability."

"I'm not claiming that a global warming science program isn't needed; it is," Spencer said. "We do need to find out how much of the current warmth is human-induced and how much we might expect in the future. I'm just pointing out that the political interference goes both ways, but not everyone has felt compelled to complain about
it."

E-mail: [email protected]
SOURCE
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 12:45 pm
Quote:
Twenty years ago, as a PhD scientist, I intensely studied the evolution versus intelligent design controversy for about two years. And finally, despite my previous acceptance of evolutionary theory as 'fact,' I came to the realization that intelligent design, as a theory of origins, is no more religious, and no less scientific, than evolutionism. . . . In the scientific community, I am not alone. There are many fine books out there on the subject. Curiously, most of the books are written by scientists who lost faith in evolution as adults, after they learned how to apply the analytical tools they were taught in college.


source: Roy Spencer: Faith-Based Evolution
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 12:53 pm
Quote:
In support of Intelligent design, Spencer wrote in 2005, "Twenty years ago, as a PhD scientist, I intensely studied the evolution versus intelligent design controversy for about two years. And finally, despite my previous acceptance of evolutionary theory as 'fact,' I came to the realization that intelligent design, as a theory of origins, is no more religious, and no less scientific, than evolutionism. . . . In the scientific community, I am not alone. There are many fine books out there on the subject. Curiously, most of the books are written by scientists who lost faith in evolution as adults, after they learned how to apply the analytical tools they were taught in college." [3]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roy_Spencer

Here's his page at the George Marshall Institute
http://www.marshall.org/experts.php?id=122
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blatham
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 12:54 pm
Well, good day, walter. Nice to see you here.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 12:55 pm
:wink:
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Foxfyre
 
  1  
Reply Tue 20 Mar, 2007 01:13 pm
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