Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

okie wrote:

I don't know if I can sleep tonight I am so worried, September was 0.24 C higher than normal, and 0.52 higher in the Northern Hemisphere. And the Southern Hemisphere was -0.04 than normal. Could be another ice age there, while we swelter here.

Indeed Okie, we are 0,33°C BELOW the 1998 record high. Maybe it's another ice age coming ? Rolling Eyes

http://www.businessandmedia.org/specialreports/2006/fireandice/images/FireandIce_10_0001.jpg

http://img109.imageshack.us/img109/6113/scan00011pb8.jpg

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Speaking of times-lines (could you perhaps give a source for yours, miniTAX? Even via New York Times Archive a couldn't get the original!) ...

Global Warming time-line by Harpers

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Speaking of times-lines (could you perhaps give a source for yours, miniTAX? Even via New York Times Archive a couldn't get the original!) ...

Global Warming time-line by Harpers

Walter,
You shouldn't expect your link to give sources back to the no-internet age (try to search "war" and you'll see nothing pre-dates 1980).

Here is my source.
BTW, just another irresistible image Twisted Evil

It would be funny if in the current hysteria context, it weren't beyond satire.

http://www.businessandmedia.org/specialreports/2006/fireandice/images/ciareport.jpg

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Consider the following... from the 1930s

Quote:

In a memo to American Tobacco, Bernays said that the nicotine findings "indicate again what we must be prepared to answer." In fact, he was already helping to prepare that answer. One approach to newspaper stories on the dangers of smoking, he wrote Hahn (senior American Tobacco exec), was to "lay down a barrage to the editors of the country, reflecting to them authoritative opinion on the cigarette in relation to the physiology of the human body - doing this not so much with the purpose of getting this material printed, but doing it rather to build up such a constructive picture of the cigarette in the minds of the editors that when a story of the type I am sending you (nicotine as carcinogin) comes along, they will hesitate to print it because they have been convinced of the contrary view."

page 47 "The Father of Spin".

Do we see a relationship between energy industry propaganda techniques and the above?

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Blatham, have you considered the "political industry?"

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Walter Hinteler wrote:

Looking back, 40 years on, we were intoxicated with an idea of individual freedom that was little more than greedy egotism

Walter, the new home of communists is the environmental movement. I would suggest that you just keep that in mind as you try to figure out what is going on here. There are some people in the world that just cannot abide not being able to tell everybody else what to do, and they see the environmental cause as a very good wedge that is getting traction with lots of people, especially the young, if they can indoctrinate them all in the schools. So who are the real egotists here?

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miniTAX wrote:

Walter,
You shouldn't expect your link to give sources back to the no-internet age (try to search "war" and you'll see nothing pre-dates 1980).

So this was made by futurologists?

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okie wrote:

Walter, the new home of communists is the environmental movement.

Either you are joking or it must be that the churches here (our most active environmental groups are by the Catholic and Evangelical Churches here in the rural part of the country where I live) and the German Conservatives (Klaus Toepfer, a former conservative secretary of state, was until recently executive director of the United Nations Environment Programme [UNEP]) are defected to the Communists - who otherwise not only are underpart in Europe but definately not pro-environment in general.

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I am not joking. You will have to judge the European situation as you see it. What has Gorby been doing since the Soviet Union was broken up due to failure of communism? He's involved in the green movement. Just my opinion here, but communism has experienced some very serious failures, although it still has traction in some areas, and even a resurgence in some places, but by and large it is considered a failed system by most people that are honest about it. So that movement is looking for an issue that can support their idealogy. As an observer of environmental groups here in this country, they are consistently pro-government and anti-business / free enterprise.

So the people that have a serious dislike for free enterprise and would love to exercise their communistic and socialistic systems naturally gravitate to issues that support a group government fix. They would like everyone to believe that man-caused global warming is an open-shut case. Blatham points out the bias of energy companies, but chooses to ignore the built in bias of socialists, communists, and those people with big government, pro-U.N. idealogies.

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okie wrote:

What has Gorby been doing since the Soviet Union was broken up due to failure of communism? He's involved in the green movement.

Gorbachev founded the Gorbachev Foundation and founded Green Cross International, with which he was one of three major sponsors of the Earth Charter. He also became a member of the Club of Rome.
If that's what you mean by your response ... Shocked

okie wrote:

As an observer of environmental groups here in this country, they are consistently pro-government and anti-business / free enterprise.

Certainly we have some pro-governmental environmental groups here as well - they are, however, only from the conservative side (well, I must admit, some Social-Democratic environmental friends are now supporting the governments policies as well).
This hasn't that much to do business/enterprise - it's a different topic.

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Quote:

As an observer of environmental groups here in this country, they are consistently pro-government and anti-business / free enterprise.

Um, yeah.

Gov't does the regulating that is need to keep business/free enterprise from polluting the sh*t out of everything they possibly can in the name of Profits.

How do you expect them to act, exactly? Their stance doesn't make them anything other than good Americans.

Perhaps is businesses could be trusted not to pollute egregiously, then we wouldn't have to have so much regulation.

Cycloptichorn

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So government is clean and pure as the wind driven snow, cyclops? What about Chernobyl and what about the pollution in China? And what about the nuclear fallout in Utah, Nevada, and Arizona that nobody in government thought to tell anybody about a few decades ago?

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No, the gov't isn't perfect either. That's why we continue to push for higher standards of open record keeping and less secrecy amongst the regulator-industry relationship.

None of what you listed has anything to do with the perfectly correct attitude that we need gov't regulators to keep track of free enterprise, which has proven - conclusively, over and over again - that they will sacrifice our environment in the name of profits. If you care about the world you live in, you don't have a choice other than to have an interest in gov't regulation.

Of course, personal responsibilty is a large part of it as well. I have a long list of companies which pollute heavily which I just won't buy products from, and I don't drive a car. You can't rely on gov't to do everything, we all have to work together to accomplish the goal of a clean and healthy environment, and balance this with progress and scientific advancement for the human race.

Cycloptichorn

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You mean what a responded with your remark about Gorbachev's "green movement"?

re government: I totally agree here, okie. They are really not doing enough and therefor only "their own" enviromentalists (= party line) are supporting them .... and the businesses.

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okie wrote:

What about Chernobyl and what about the pollution in China?

Ah, you're talking about the "green communists" again, aren't you? Or did just American communists become green? How many American communists do exist at all? More than KKK members?

Just curious.

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old europe wrote:

okie wrote:
What about Chernobyl and what about the pollution in China?

Ah, you're talking about the "green communists" again, aren't you? Or did just American communists become green? How many American communists do exist at all? More than KKK members?

Just curious.

How many American communists are there? Well, not that many on paper. The term is still held in low regard, but the policies may not be. Sort of like the Trojan Horse.

Haven't you ever noticed that environmental groups rarely pick on communist countries regardless of how bad the pollution is, the water is undrinkable, etc.?

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oh boy.. here comes okie with his, anyone that doesn't agree with me is a communist even if they won't admit it to themselves.

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okie wrote:

Haven't you ever noticed that environmental groups rarely pick on communist countries regardless of how bad the pollution is, the water is undrinkable, etc.?

Well, yes, there are still two or three communist countries.

And yu really can't find anything about them on any site by any environmental group?
Try google!

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okie wrote:

old europe wrote:
okie wrote:
What about Chernobyl and what about the pollution in China?

Ah, you're talking about the "green communists" again, aren't you? Or did just American communists become green? How many American communists do exist at all? More than KKK members?

Just curious.

How many American communists are there? Well, not that many on paper. The term is still held in low regard, but the policies may not be. Sort of like the Trojan Horse.

Haven't you ever noticed that environmental groups rarely pick on communist countries regardless of how bad the pollution is, the water is undrinkable, etc.?

No. I haven't noticed, I'm sorry.

Do you honestly think environmental groups "pick" less on Bangladesh than on Laos because Laos is a communist country? I doubt it.

And do you honestly think all the former Soviets joined Greenpeace in order to bring down America? (I kind of think you do, actually...)

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parados wrote:

oh boy.. here comes okie with his, anyone that doesn't agree with me is a communist even if they won't admit it to themselves.

hehehehe.....

Pretty good analysis, actually.

Very Happy

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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

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