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Global Warming...New Report...and it ain't happy news

 
 
Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 11:00 am
http://i14.tinypic.com/2s7c4df.jpg
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 11:02 am
http://i13.tinypic.com/29m57vo.jpg
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 11:02 am
http://i13.tinypic.com/43xhi87.jpg
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 11:03 am
http://i14.tinypic.com/2uskdu0.jpg
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 11:04 am
http://i14.tinypic.com/33f3x4n.jpg
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miniTAX
 
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Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 11:16 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
Quote:
A report by economist Sir Nicholas Stern suggests that global warming could shrink the global economy by 20%.
But taking action now would cost just 1% of global gross domestic product, the 700-page study says.
Sounds like "you'll have 20% more wrinkles if you don't buy my miraculous rejuvenating pills which only costs you 1% of your budget", the snakeoil man (taxman ?) said.
And people buy Rolling Eyes
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Thomas
 
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Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 11:21 am
I notice that Mr. Stern is specific about the costs of avoiding global warming, but vague about the costs of not avoiding them. Does the fullness of the study reveal how expensive it would be not to stall global warming? And where does he see the break-even point between expected costs and benefits?
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old europe
 
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Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 11:23 am
miniTAX wrote:
the snakeoil man


It seems you don't like Sir Nicholas Stern, right?

Quote:
Sir Nicholas (Nick) Stern (born 22 April 1946) was the Chief Economist and Senior Vice-President of the World Bank from 2000 to 2003 and is now a civil servant and government economic advisor in the UK.

He earned his B.A. in mathematics at Peterhouse, Cambridge and his D.Phil. in economics at Nuffield College, Oxford. He taught from 1986-1993 at the London School of Economics, becoming Professor of Economics, and from 1994 until 1999 was the Chief Economist and Special Counsellor to the President of the European Bank for Reconstruction and Development. His research focuses on economic development and growth, including books on Kenya and the Green Revolution in India.

He was knighted and recruited by Gordon Brown, UK Chancellor of the Exchequer, to work for the British government where, in 2003, he became second permanent secretary at H.M. Treasury, initially with responsibility for public finances, and head of the Government Economic Service. Having also been Director of Policy and Research for the Commission for Africa, he was, in July 2005, appointed to conduct reviews on the economics of climate change and also of development, which led to the publication of the Stern Review. He ceased to be a second permanent secretary at the Treasury though he retains the rank; the review team he heads is based in the Cabinet Office.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 11:23 am
Well, I know just a little bit about meteorology, much less about climatolgy - but I'm really not on the ball with someone of such a background as Sir Nicholas ... to be honest, any first year's student in economics is an expert in my eyes. :wink:
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miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 11:35 am
Thomas wrote:
I notice that Mr. Stern is specific about the costs of avoiding global warming, but vague about the costs of not avoiding them. Does the fullness of the study reveal how expensive it would be not to stall global warming? And where does he see the break-even point between expected costs and benefits?
Mr. Stern practices voodoo economics where public spending makes the economy grows, rising energy price creates values. The costs is estimated by the IPCC, for example, about 4.000 billions $ to stabilize CO2 at 450 ppm (current is 380ppm), a ridiculous sum to save the world. But who cares. The brain has been washed. The purse next. Crying or Very sad
Source
http://opelinjection.free.fr/rc1/IPPC%20mitigationcost.jpg
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Walter Hinteler
 
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Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 11:44 am
miniTAX wrote:
Mr. Stern practices voodoo economics


I suspected such after reading his biography.
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miniTAX
 
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Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 11:48 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
http://i13.tinypic.com/43xhi87.jpg

Walter,
BTW, where does your graph comes from ? Current annual CO2 emission is about 6,6GT C or 24 GT CO2 whereas your graph's is 40 GT CO2. Pls have your numbers straight.
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miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 11:53 am
Walter Hinteler wrote:
miniTAX wrote:
Mr. Stern practices voodoo economics

I suspected such after reading his biography.

Well a lot of ideology may help.

Quote:

Economics, albeit more prosaically, has also been subject to fads, whims and consensus views to which history has not been kind. Twenty-five years ago Britain was at an economic crossroads. The credibility of the British economy was collapsing as inflation and unemployment soared, manufacturing output slumped and the national debt spiralled upwards. Margaret Thatcher and her Chancellor, Sir Geoffrey Howe, concluded that drastic action was required. Taxes were raised by £4bn (then a huge sum) in the 1981 Budget in order to provide scope for lower interest rates and tackle public sector borrowing. There was, unsurprisingly, substantial political opposition.

But, of more interest, 364 economists signed a letter to The Times stating that there was "no basis in economic theory or supporting evidence" for Sir Geoffrey's policy and that it threatened Britain's "social and political stability". An alternative course of action must be pursued, these savants insisted. Almost the entire academic economic establishment stood against the Government with a mere handful of brave "mavericks" dissenting from the consensus view. But, as we now know, the letter's signatories were wrong because they believed in the then ubiquitous, but faulty, Keynesian consensus of the time.

Source
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 11:55 am
miniTAX wrote:
Walter,
BTW, where does your graph comes from ? Current annual CO2 emission is about 6,6GT C or 24 GT CO2 whereas your graph's is 40 GT CO2. Pls have your numbers straight.


From the link I gave as souce. It is said to be the official one as presented to the Houses of Parliament.

I really wonder why you blame for that. Shocked
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 12:02 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
It is said to be the official one as presented to the Houses of Parliament.


It is as I was confirmed.
--------
Your critics on Sir Geoffry/Royal Society may be right or wrong, but have little to do with what Sir Nicholas Stern presented today and what I quoted.
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miniTAX
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 12:10 pm
Walter Hinteler wrote:
From the link I gave as souce. It is said to be the official one as presented to the Houses of Parliament.

I really wonder why you blame for that. Shocked
OK, that's the CO2-equivalent number, counting methane, NOx, CFC, HFC...
The projection curves are misleading because without error margin, they convey an idea of certitude. No ones knows how the biosphere would react. For example, IPCC SAR (1996) predicted methane concentration would rise whereas it has stabilized for nearly 10 years now and no one knows precisely how or why!
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 12:14 pm
On the HM Treasury website, btw are links for the full download of the report plus various other related to the Stern report.
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Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 12:17 pm
miniTAX wrote:
OK, that's the CO2-equivalent number, counting methane, NOx, CFC, HFC...
The projection curves are misleading because without error margin, they convey an idea of certitude. No ones knows how the biosphere would react. For example, IPCC SAR (1996) predicted methane concentration would rise whereas it has stabilized for nearly 10 years now and no one knows precisely how or why!


Well, as said, I only gave the links and really don't see any reason to "have my numbers straight" - they are neither mine nor did I forget to give the correct quatation/link.
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parados
 
  1  
Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 12:18 pm
miniTAX wrote:
Walter Hinteler wrote:
From the link I gave as souce. It is said to be the official one as presented to the Houses of Parliament.

I really wonder why you blame for that. Shocked
OK, that's the CO2-equivalent number, counting methane, NOx, CFC, HFC...
The projection curves are misleading because without error margin, they convey an idea of certitude. No ones knows how the biosphere would react. For example, IPCC SAR (1996) predicted methane concentration would rise whereas it has stabilized for nearly 10 years now and no one knows precisely how or why!


Meanwhile you tell us how the economy will be destroyed by trying to reduce CO2 emisions.

Do you bother to think before you make others live up to standards you don't want to? What evidence do you have to support the claim that the cost to reduce will do anything economicaly. Do you mislead by not allowing for error margin? Nah.. you convey an aura of certainty while attacking others for using better scientific methods.
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miniTAX
 
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Reply Mon 30 Oct, 2006 12:27 pm
parados wrote:
Meanwhile you tell us how the economy will be destroyed by trying to reduce CO2 emisions.
Huh ???
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