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Gun Control in England: Consequences

 
 
Steppenwolf
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 09:51 am
Before I catch any flak about not mentioning the Lott and Mustard studies, here are some observations made by others.

Re: Lott's vaunted study:

Quote:
Lott and Mustard argued that their results indicated that the laws caused substantial reductions in violence rates by deterring prospective criminals afraid of encountering an armed victim. This conclusion could be challenged, in light of how modest the intervention was. The 1.3% of the population in places like Florida who obtained permits would represent at best only a slight increase in the share of potential crime victims who carry guns in public places. And if those who got permits were merely legitimating what they were already doing before the new laws, it would mean there was no increase at all in carrying or in actual risks to criminals. One can always speculate that criminals' perceptions of risk outran reality, but that is all this is--a speculation. More likely, the declines in crime coinciding with relaxation of carry laws were largely attributable to other factors not controlled in the Lott and Mustard analysis.


Gary Kleck and Marc Gertz,Armed resistance to crime: The prevalence and nature of self defense with a gun, 86 Journal of Criminal Law and Criminology, 86, 150-187 (1995).

Before you dismiss this as nonsense from anti-gun researchers, Gary Kleck has publicly stated that he believes in the deterrent effects of guns, although he also apparently believes in the illuminating effects of an objective analysis.

Other researchers used Lott's model to test period between 1992-1996 (Lott looked at data before 1992), when 14 more jurisdictions adopted carry laws. They found an increase (!!!) in crime by using Lott's exact econometric analysis. They conclude:

Quote:
Those who were swayed by the statistical evidence previously offered by Lott and Mustard to believe the more guns, less crime hypothesis should now be more strongly inclined to accept the even stronger statistical evidence suggesting the crime- inducing effect of shall issue laws. [The opposite effect, how can that be?]


Ian Ayres and John J. Donohue III, Shooting down the more guns, less crime hypothesis, 55 Stan. L. Rev. 1193-1312 (2003).

In the end, you can pick and choose your statistics and studies. You accept whatever politically motivated "facts" you want
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 09:51 am
Getting out? I'm just getting in and would be happy to walk you through this.




"You asked why you should be deprived of guns if you handle them responsibly.

I asked you if you can think of reasons why I should be deprived of nukes if I handle them responsibly. "

Funny how the liberals answer questions with unrelated questions.

In mature circles, when one debates an issue, one usually answers questions posed. YOU apparently have a difficult time with the questions.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 09:55 am
woiyo wrote:

Funny how the liberals answer questions with unrelated questions.


You are grasping at straws. What liberals?

Quote:

In mature circles, when one debates an issue, one usually answers questions posed. YOU apparently have a difficult time with the questions.


I have no problem answering any questions you pose to me and have not failed to do so once herein.
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 10:08 am
I asked you directly to explain how you can equate a nuclear weapon to a pistol/riflle as it relates to gun laws.

Still waiting.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 10:59 am
Empirically, as proponents of free weapon technology are apt to state, there is no difference between a gun and a nuclear bomb. Both are inanimate objects with the potential to kill people.

But I digress; I originally meant to write this:

Freeper link = Scroll

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 01:40 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Empirically, as proponents of free weapon technology are apt to state, there is no difference between a gun and a nuclear bomb. Both are inanimate objects with the potential to kill people.


Some guns are designed to kill people. Others are designed to kill animals smaller than people and still others to kill larger animals.

If somebody were to ask you your opinion on America's most lethal gun, and by that mean lethal in the sense of ability to kill large and dangerous animals quickly, how would you answer such a question?
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 02:34 pm
What's my opinion of it? Well, I suppose that there are people who live in areas where animals could be quite deadly (just b/c I live in the city doesn't mean everyone does) and some are trophy hunters, so it's not as if the gun would be without purpose. I wouldn't have a problem with it; a thing is just a thing until it is used.

I don't think banning guns stops anything; we'll go back to swords if we have to. Hell, the popular weapons nowadays are lasers! But, seeing as we have a complete and comprehensive system for licensing the use of automobiles, I see no reason why we could not have a similar system for firearms.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 02:44 pm
We already have a system of licensing for guns. Maybe we need to "tweek" it a little such as comprehensive background checks, but there are enough gun laws on the books. They need to be enforced.
0 Replies
 
cjhsa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 02:54 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
I don't think banning guns stops anything; we'll go back to swords if we have to.

Cycloptichorn


Not if you live in Australia. They banned swords there too.

To borrow a sign off quote from a user on another board,

"If guns kill people, where are mine hiding the bodies?"
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 03:20 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Empirically, as proponents of free weapon technology are apt to state, there is no difference between a gun and a nuclear bomb. Both are inanimate objects with the potential to kill people.


What is a proponent of free weapon technology?

Who has stated this, other than proponents of gun control?
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 05:10 pm
How is the logic of removing guns from law biding citizens leaving the gins in the hands of crooks poor? Wouldn't it be a true statement? If it isn't then please explain.
0 Replies
 
Craven de Kere
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 09:51 pm
woiyo wrote:
I asked you directly to explain how you can equate a nuclear weapon to a pistol/riflle as it relates to gun laws.

Still waiting.


I have never equated the two. I have used nukes as an obvious example of the fallacy of the "inanimate object" argument and made no attempt to equate the two.
0 Replies
 
 

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