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British soldiers torture Iraqi citizens

 
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 08:39 am
In case anyone does not want to subscribe to nytimes: (printer friendly format)

January 20, 2005
MISTREATMENT
3 British Soldiers Court-Martialed on Charges of Iraq Prisoner Abuse Similar to U.S. Cases
By ALAN COWELL

ONDON, Jan. 19 - Since their forces joined the American-led invasion of Iraq almost two years ago, British commanders and politicians have liked to depict their troops as less combative, less abrasive and less trigger-happy in dealing with local populations than their American counterparts.

But that image dissolved Wednesday as lurid photographs and accusations of abuse strikingly similar to those that emerged last April in the United States filled the front pages of newspapers here, showing British soldiers apparently mistreating Iraqi prisoners in 2003. The photographs are part of the evidence against three soldiers facing a court-martial at a British base in Germany.

"These pictures will inevitably open old wounds and be part of drawing parallels with Abu Ghraib," said Menzies Campbell, the deputy leader of the opposition Liberal Democrats, who oppose the Iraq war.

The parallels are hard to avoid, from the sexualized nature of some of the alleged abuse, to the photographs, to the responses from political leaders.

Faced by widespread outrage at the images, whose authenticity has not been challenged, Prime Minister Tony Blair sought Wednesday to contain the potential political damage only months before a national election widely forecast for May.

In Parliament, he described the photographs showing Iraqis apparently forced to simulate homosexual acts as "shocking and appalling - there are simply no other words to describe them."

But he cited two factors, the court-martial itself and the relative rarity of reported abuse, to defend Britain's reputation. "The vast majority of those 65,000 British soldiers who have served in Iraq have done so with distinction, with courage and with great honor to this country," Mr. Blair said.

"I think and hope that people in Iraq do understand that the very fact that we are taking this action and prosecuting people who we believe may have been guilty of offenses indicates that we do not tolerate this type of activity in any shape or form at all," he said.

Similarly, after photographs of abuse by American soldiers were made public, President Bush expressed his disgust, arguing that the actions of a handful of soldiers should not taint the tens of thousands who serve honorably.

Last week, Specialist Charles A. Graner Jr. was sentenced to 10 years in prison for his part in the Abu Ghraib abuse.

In Britain on Wednesday, both government and opposition closed ranks in insisting that, as the Conservative leader, Michael Howard, put it, the photographs "in no way reflect the true character of Britain's armed forces."

Publication of the photographs inspired concern that the 9,000 British troops, the biggest contingent among America's allies, could become targets of attack by Iraqis just days before the Jan. 30 election there.

"Over all, the British image is still better than the Americans," said Ahmed Versi, editor of the London-based Muslim News. "I think the British troops in the south have an advantage because the southern areas suffered a lot under Saddam Hussein, so the people there will take this in their stride. They are looking forward to a time when there will be no occupation."

Most of the British troops are in southern Iraq, and since the occupation started, the south has generally been far less violent than the so-called Sunni Triangle around Baghdad. For all that, though, Mr. Versi and others said, the publication of the photographs will give "a very bad image." Indeed, said Abdel Bari Atwan, editor of the London-based newspaper Al Quds al Arabi, "it will be an uphill struggle to repair the damage."

According to testimony at the court-martial in Osnabrück, Germany, the abuse took place in May 2003. At the time, British troops, who had occupied Basra several weeks earlier, reported extensive looting of a depot containing relief supplies like food and powdered milk.

A lawyer defending one of three accused soldiers said Wednesday in Osnabrück that an officer, Maj. Dan Taylor, had given an order for looters to be rounded up and "worked hard" to punish them for stealing.

The three soldiers on trial in Germany are Lance Cpl. Mark Cooley, 25; Cpl. Daniel Kenyon, 33; and Lance Cpl. Darren Larkin, 30. Only Corporal Larkin has admitted one charge of assault. Other charges against the three men - which they have denied - include forcing two men to strip naked and simulate sexual acts and using a fork-lift truck to hoist a prisoner aloft.

The photographs show the men seeming to prepare to punch and kick bound prisoners. The abuse became known when a soldier handed in film from his camera for processing on his return to Britain and was reported to the civilian police.

The worst abuse in the Abu Ghraib case took place in late 2003, and also involved detainees being placed in sexually humiliating positions, some of which were photographed.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 08:48 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
What the revelation of the British incidents of abuse tells us is that such incidents are almost predictable within the context of a war, and, contrary to the wishful thinking of anti-Americans, not peculiar to US troops.

Actually, abuse of power over prisoners is a well-known phenomenon.

My complaint with the US military is that they should have had adequate oversite to prevent the abuses from happening.

I guess that makes me anti-American?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 10:39 pm
Magus wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:


In any case, while I have always been a declared anglophile, I do find it ironically amusing that the Brit military elite who were, heretofore, so pompously condescending in the their comparisons between the actions and capabilities of US and UK forces in Iraq are now found with their pants down.


"Anglophile"?

Gee, Finn, I dunno 'bout Tejas, but here in New England we use a different terminology with which to describe men who enjoy seeing other men butt-nekkid.


"Gee" Magus and what would that be? "Queer?" "Fag?" "Homo?" (Insert any common slur for homosexual if the site editing program engages)

It is even more amusing when enightened progressives resort to homophobic insults.
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Mon 24 Jan, 2005 10:49 pm
DrewDad wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
What the revelation of the British incidents of abuse tells us is that such incidents are almost predictable within the context of a war, and, contrary to the wishful thinking of anti-Americans, not peculiar to US troops.

Actually, abuse of power over prisoners is a well-known phenomenon.

My complaint with the US military is that they should have had adequate oversite to prevent the abuses from happening.

I guess that makes me anti-American?


Not at all DrewDad, although I'm sure you don't really believe that to be the case, but instead believe the line to be something of a clever retort.

I agree with you though that the US military should have done more to prevent the abuse, or at least put a stop to it much more quickly.

However if you (or anyone else for that matter) are disappointed that British soldiers engaged in similar abuse because it eliminates any contention that only the US military is capable of such reprehensible conduct...then you would be anti-American.
0 Replies
 
DrewDad
 
  1  
Reply Tue 25 Jan, 2005 07:48 am
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
What the revelation of the British incidents of abuse tells us is that such incidents are almost predictable within the context of a war, and, contrary to the wishful thinking of anti-Americans, not peculiar to US troops.

Actually, abuse of power over prisoners is a well-known phenomenon.

My complaint with the US military is that they should have had adequate oversite to prevent the abuses from happening.

I guess that makes me anti-American?


Not at all DrewDad, although I'm sure you don't really believe that to be the case, but instead believe the line to be something of a clever retort.

More something of a jab at people who paint with too wide a brush.

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I agree with you though that the US military should have done more to prevent the abuse, or at least put a stop to it much more quickly.

However if you (or anyone else for that matter) are disappointed that British soldiers engaged in similar abuse because it eliminates any contention that only the US military is capable of such reprehensible conduct...then you would be anti-American.

I must have missed the posts by the folks who feel that way. Was this attitude something that Rush suggested?
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 01:17 am
DrewDad wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
DrewDad wrote:
Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
What the revelation of the British incidents of abuse tells us is that such incidents are almost predictable within the context of a war, and, contrary to the wishful thinking of anti-Americans, not peculiar to US troops.

Actually, abuse of power over prisoners is a well-known phenomenon.

My complaint with the US military is that they should have had adequate oversite to prevent the abuses from happening.

I guess that makes me anti-American?


Not at all DrewDad, although I'm sure you don't really believe that to be the case, but instead believe the line to be something of a clever retort.

More something of a jab at people who paint with too wide a brush.

And yet another attempt at a clever retort.

I assume that you mean to suggest that I am painting with too wide a brush. How so?

Before you allow your knee jerk reflexes to kick in read below.

Finn d'Abuzz wrote:
I agree with you though that the US military should have done more to prevent the abuse, or at least put a stop to it much more quickly.

However if you (or anyone else for that matter) are disappointed that British soldiers engaged in similar abuse because it eliminates any contention that only the US military is capable of such reprehensible conduct...then you would be anti-American.

I must have missed the posts by the folks who feel that way. Was this attitude something that Rush suggested?

No, you didn't miss any such posts, but you did miss the fact that I never suggested that anyone on this thread was anti-American.

I realize that the term anti-American is to a Liberal what a red cape is to a bull, but this is no excuse for flawed comprehension and hasty responses.

If you take the time to read the thread you will see that we are in basic agreement on the abuse issue:

a) It is to be expected of any armed force in any war
b) The US military (and the UK military) should have done more to prevent it.

Anyone who prefers to believe that only American troops would engage in abuse is, almost by definition, anti-American. Notwithstanding how this term doesn't sit well in your shorts, you'll note that I didn't direct it to anyone in particular, let alone anyone on this thread.

It is ironic that in trying so hard to skewer someone you mistakenly believe wields too broad a brush, you reveal yourself to be just such a painter.

0 Replies
 
blatham
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 06:49 am
Quote:
Anyone who prefers to believe that only American troops would engage in abuse is, almost by definition, anti-American. Notwithstanding how this term doesn't sit well in your shorts, you'll note that I didn't direct it to anyone in particular, let alone anyone on this thread.


What we are talking about is not 'abuse', but systematic torture, justified and oked by the President on down. Pulling out fingernails or drilling into a tooth, for example, falls short of "organ failure". Which tells you where your nation has just arrived.

That the Brits would engage in the sorts of sexual degradation acts (when there's no such acts in the record when Brit forces were active in Ireland) just as we saw in Abu Ghraib, and as the Israelis have used on Muslims in Palestine, we can make the reasonable assumption that these 'techniques' were shared by the military administrators of all three countries.

Mark Danner from The New York Review of Books

Quote:
Between the publication of my article, "Abu Ghraib: The Hidden Story," and the receipt of these letters, and mainly thanks to the President's nomination of Alberto Gonzales to be attorney general and the hearings that followed, we have had a public discussion of the "outrageous memos authored by highly placed administration lawyers" to which Mr. Rivkin refers. (The memos, and a great many other documents associated with administration policy on interrogation, were leaked in the wake of the broadcast of the photographs of torture at Abu Ghraib, presumably by government officials who opposed administration policy. They are published in full, along with the photographs and many other critical documents, in my current book, Torture and Truth: America, Abu Ghraib, and the War on Terror.)

As White House counsel Mr. Gonzales served as "point man" directing the administration's policies on interrogation, and presided in particular over two major decisions. First, he strongly advised the President to withhold Geneva Convention protection from prisoners taken in Afghan- istan, an unprecedented position that the Bush administration, after considerable debate, adopted. Second, he solicited a memo from the Office of Legal Counsel in the Department of Justice that, as Mr. Rivkin says, declares that the president, under his war powers as commander in chief, can "legally" order torture to be applied. The memo, which is dated August 2002, also "redefines" the meaning of the word "torture" as it appeared in domestic statutes and international treaties which commit the United States to prohibit its use.

By defining torture very narrowly?-as an activity that causes pain "equivalent in intensity to the pain accompanying serious physical injury such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death"?-this memo, by a kind of repellent verbal sleight of hand, makes it possible to treat many practices that plainly are torture, and are so recognized throughout the world, as something less than that. Thus "waterboarding," for example?-the practice of stripping prisoners and submerging them until they have nearly drowned?- which is a favorite of torturers around the world and which, as I discussed in my article, Americans have used on al-Qaeda prisoners, could be considered under this memorandum to be a legal practice.

According to a report in The New York Times on January 13, subsequent and still- secret memorandums explicitly approved the use of waterboarding as one of twenty additional "interrogation practices" that intelligence officers were permitted to use. Though these memos were apparently intended to guide the CIA, at least some of their content?-in particular, entire paragraphs drawn verbatim from the Bybee memorandum of August 2002?-was incorporated into the Pentagon's Working Group Report on Detainee Interrogations in the Global War on Terror of April 2003. Our picture of discussions within the administration remains incomplete, a jigsaw puzzle still missing many pieces; but it is no longer tenable to claim, as administration officials up to and including Mr. Gonzales repeatedly have done, that these were "advisory" opinions which had no direct effect on how detainees were treated. What these policymakers decided and wrote had a direct effect on how detainees were treated.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

President Bush's decision to nominate the man instrumental in making torture "legal" to be the chief law enforcement officer of the United States offered the occasion for a full public debate of these issues. Though a number of Democratic senators, and at least one Republican, pressed Mr. Gonzales for answers, the result was mostly obfuscations and, occasionally, downright lies. Senator Patrick Leahy, Democrat of Vermont, described the August 2002 memo and asked the nominee bluntly, "Did you agree with that conclusion?"

Gonzales: Senator, in connection with that opinion, I did my job as counsel to the President to ask the question.
Senator Leahy: I just want to know, did you agree?-we can spend an hour with that answer, but frankly, it would be very simple. Did you agree with that interpretation of the torture statute back in August 2002?
Gonzales: If I may, sir, let me try to give you a quick answer, but I'd like to put a little bit of context. There obviously we were interpreting a statute that had never been reviewed in the courts.... I don't recall today whether or not I was in agreement with all of the analysis, but I don't have a disagreement with the conclusions then reached by the department. Ultimately, it is the responsibility of the department to tell us what the law means, Senator. [Emphasis added.]
This is a shocking answer. Though the administration had distanced itself from the so-called "torture memorandum" soon after it was leaked last June, and had quietly issued, a week before Gonzales was scheduled to appear before Congress, a more restrictive memorandum to replace it, Mr. Gonzales declined to dissociate himself from it. Instead, he implied that in the matter of interpreting and defining torture, and in making it possible for the government to apply it broadly, his hands were essentially tied: it was "the responsibility of the department [of justice] to tell us what the law means"?-though common sense suggests, and reports in The New York Times and elsewhere confirm, that the White House, and Mr. Gonzales himself, were instrumental in seeing that the Justice Department lawyers delivered the conclusions that the President wanted.

That Mr. Gonzales could state, after the revelations from Abu Ghraib, Guantánamo, and elsewhere, that he still does not "have a disagreement with the conclusions then reached by the department"?-conclusions that subsequently formed part of a Defense Department Working Group Report on torture, and, through this and other channels, had a direct effect in setting interrogation rules that allowed torture and, so far as we know, still do allow it?-is frankly appalling.

But appalling to whom? In answering as he did, Mr. Gonzales demonstrated a cynicism about Americans' fundamental lack of concern about these matters that was more than borne out in the response, or rather the lack of it, to what he said. The hearings offered Congress yet another chance to perform a critical duty it has so far scarcely begun?-to investigate fully how it came to pass that Americans tortured prisoners; to identify those officials, from the mid-level of the military chain of command up to the highest levels of the American government, who were responsible for approving its use; and to open the way for appropriate punishment. Yet the hearings themselves, before a Republican Senate in what has become essentially a one-party government, accomplished no such thing. Chances are very good that Mr. Gonzales will be duly confirmed, a step that will send a strong signal to the rest of the world that the policies he presided over retain the approval of the United States government and the American people.

During the hearings, Senator Lindsey Graham, Republican of South Carolina, pointed out that these policies "put our troops at jeopardy" and damage the country by causing it to "lose the high ground" in the war on terror. But though Senator Graham, a conservative and a former military lawyer, was almost alone in mentioning the fact, it is "on the ground" that the effects of the decision to use torture can be most clearly seen.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Though we still lack many details of what American interrogators did at Abu Ghraib, Guantánamo, Bagram, and other prisons, and what they are still doing there, it seems clear that at Abu Ghraib Americans imprisoned many Iraqis who should never have been arrested. As early as October 2003, US military intelligence officers told representatives of the Red Cross "that in their estimate between 70 and 90 percent of the persons deprived of their liberty in Iraq had been arrested by mistake." In his report on Abu Ghraib last summer, General Fay quoted a sergeant assigned to the Abu Ghraib Detainee Assessment Board ?-the body responsible for deciding whether prisoners should be released?-as estimating that "85-90 percent of the detainees were of no intelligence value."

It is no mystery why this is so. The Americans' bewilderment in the face of the growing insurgency during the summer and fall of 2003, and their increasingly desperate need for "actionable intelligence" to confront it, led American combat troops, in the words of General Fay, "to round up large quantities of Iraqi personnel [that is, civilians] in the general vicinity of a specified target." This so-called "cordon and capture technique" quickly filled Abu Ghraib with Iraqis who knew nothing whatever of the insurgency. And though it quickly became clear that these prisoners "had no intelligence value," they stayed in prison, for American combat commanders "did not concur with the release of any detainees for fear that a bad one may be released with the good ones." Mr. Ligthart quite rightly observes that "it is useless to ask everyone everything you would like to know," but the fact is that the great majority of these prisoners were never interrogated at all. Among this group seem to fall at least some of those in the notorious photographs, who were being "punished" for rioting and other violations of the rules within Abu Ghraib.

Others shown in the photographs, however, and many not depicted there, seem indeed to have been legitimate "intelligence targets" and though Generals Taguba and Fay and other investigators of the Abu Ghraib scandal have described in detail some of the torture inflicted to "soften up" these prisoners before interrogation, we still know relatively little about what intelligence soldiers and officers did to them during the interrogation sessions themselves. On December 4, Eric Schmitt of The New York Times, citing the still-unpublished report compiled by the naval inspector general, Vice Admiral Albert T. Church, writes that "at least 20 substantiated cases of abuse occurred during interrogations, contrary to the Pentagon's original claims."

Mr. Ligthart, drawing on his experience in the Dutch resistance during World War II, notes that guerrilla organizations protect themselves "with small cells and rapid communications so that [they are] warned when somebody...[is] caught," with the result that if "by a lucky strike, you catch a member of the resistance, he usually knows very little, a few addresses, an arms cache, the way they fight which you already know." American intelligence officers are doubtless perfectly aware of this fact, and have relied on the painstaking collection and collation of small bits of information, hoping to construct thereby a useful picture of the broader insurgency.

Many readers will remember the vivid description of this process by the fictional French Colonel Mathieu in Gillo Pontecorvo's film The Battle of Algiers, in which Mathieu, standing before his paratroopers, chalk in hand, demonstrates the pyramidal structure of the FLN insurgency by carefully sketching out a spreading system of self-contained cells. John F. Burns of The New York Times, writing from a Marine command center near the Iraqi town of Iskandariya on November 28, has shown us the contemporary equivalent:

A chart of suspected rebels that was developed over months by American intelligence officers and Iraqi undercover agents, laid out like a genealogical table, measures 10 feet by 4 feet. Unrolled in the command center..., it lists hundreds of rebel leaders, financiers and fighters, grouped together by family, by tribe and by past links in Mr. Hussein's military, political, and intelligence apparatus.
While Mr. Ligthart is quite right to point out that any given prisoner will know little about the broader organization of the insurgency, the path to understanding that structure nonetheless runs partly through the interrogation of those prisoners and the careful assembly of what information can be gained from them. The question is not whether captured insurgents should be interrogated but how it should be done not only to adhere to the law but to maximize the intelligence gained while minimizing the political damage done in what is, at bottom, a political war?-a war that depends for its success on Iraqis' trust in the American occupiers and their willingness to supply US troops with information which will lead to successful operations against the insurgents. All evidence suggests that that trust is now very low, in part because of the enormous damage done to the reputation of the Americans by the Abu Ghraib scandal itself. All evidence suggests, in other words, that the Americans' use of torture, among other things, has been a great boon to the insurgents, and to al-Qaeda as well.

Thus Mr. Ligthart's broader point, that Americans "torture the wrong people, torture too many, and for too long." It is hard not to believe that, in the case of Abu Ghraib and Guantánamo?-where, all evidence suggests, many prisoners, "front-line soldiers of the Taliban," have little useful to tell interrogators?-any gain in intelligence is very likely far overwhelmed by the political damage done, not only to the war in Iraq but to the broader "war on terror."

As I pointed out in an earlier article, it falls to our political leaders not only to ensure that the law is followed but to weigh the damage such violations of it might do to the broader interests of the country. It has become increasingly clear that these leaders are incapable of carrying out either responsibility. In this the Gonzales hearings will be seen as a watershed. The documents that have been revealed have brought no cleansing; in effect their publication has made all Americans party to the decisions they recount.

We have had the revelations. What we have not had, and what we can clearly not expect anytime soon, is a full investigation into how torture became American policy and who was responsible. These officials remain where they are and all Americans now bear the burden of the decisions they have made. The scandal is not what is to be revealed but what we already know.

?-January 13, 2005

Notes
[*] Ingo Müller, Hitler's Justice: The Courts of the Third Reich (Harvard University Press, 1991).
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 01:25 pm
Finn:

As blatham pointed out, in this case, it would seem that torture is now sanctioned by the U.S. and British government, regardless of whether you believe that it is right or wrong, or whether it is mearly within the nature of a foreign occupation to do so.

So, if you agree with Bush, Gonzales, Condi Rice, and the rest, that allowing certain types of torture is o.k., then how dare we complain when anybody from our side is captured and abused at the hands of Islamic militants.

Especially when they are innocent of any wrong doing.

How dare they...
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 01:33 pm
This is al-Qa'eda Rule 18: "You must claim you were tortured"
0 Replies
 
Dookiestix
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 01:50 pm
JustWonders:

And the impact of Americans doing this to innocent Iraqis on an evergrowing Islamic fundamentalism is...?

Funny how the neocons try to justify this from a purely western perspective. They were too stupid to forget the impact of such terms as "crusade" and/or "dead or alive" would have on an Islamic fundamentalist society.

Unfortunately, they are now just as stupid in their attempts to justify and revise the issue of torture and what it means and how it is applied.

Meanwhile, the actual policy makers of these heinous acts are running free and getting cush cabinet positions.

Hopeful souls? Oh my...
0 Replies
 
revel
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 01:52 pm
Blatham, you explained the position exactly. Thank you.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 02:01 pm
BRITON'S MEETING WITH BIN LADEN
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 02:11 pm
Well, it seems that those documents have been the attempt to justify why they were held.

But obviously there wasn't enough evidence to back up these claims - at least not in the eyes of the British police and juridical system.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 02:21 pm
Also probably has nothing to do with the Australian government issuing a travel advisory for its citizens traveling to Great Britain recently.
0 Replies
 
Walter Hinteler
 
  1  
Reply Sun 30 Jan, 2005 02:32 pm
Are you referring to the Australian republishing of "the political leaders and police authorities of the United Kingdom have warned of the high probability of some kind of attempted terrorist action"?

Do you think, this is worse than the alerts in the USA?
0 Replies
 
 

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