British soldiers torture Iraqi citizens

We knew if we waited long enough you would bring it up in order to justify it in our own military and leaders. Once again you have proven dependable.
Thanks....

'nuff said...thanks Bear

always here for you dude...

" 'nuff said"? Hardly.

Discussing this issue justifies nothing. Ignoring it only proves the lack of integrity the left has demonstrated repeatedly.

It's disgusting and morally repugnant. Good enough for you, there McG. I feel exactly the same way about the British soldiers engaging in abuse as I do about US soldiers doing the same.

I thought it had been discussed - mebbe on one of the Iraq threads? I just think it didn't arouse as much debate - presumably because there aren't as many Brits around, or mebbe they didn't get as defensive about it? It has been around for quite a while, and was a huge story in Britain - including some photos that were fake, as well as the later real ones.

It was disgusting.

I'm sorry McG...if you're looking for the Golden Chalice you won't find it in reports of British atrocities...the left will just point out that we're bringing the rest of the world down with us...

I'm not looking for a golden chalice, I'm not looking to place blame, I am not looking for justification.

A lot of crap has been heaped on the Bush administration surrounding the Abu Ghraib events. from direct blame to questions about integrity. Stories were posted about how Rumsfeld ordered it and that Bush should be held accountable.

Now we find out that British troops were also guilty of the EXACT SAME CRIME! Did Rumsfeld also order these guys to do what they did? Did US Intelligence agencies order these UK soldiers around?

Isn't it possible that sometimes bad guys join the military and then perpetrate crimes such as these?

Are we surprised that members of the 'coalition' were operating the same way we were?

No.

In order for those questions to have any meaning beyond you using this incident to defend the bush crew...you will have to supply any info or links where anyone has attempted to connect rummy or bush inc to the british atrocities. Can you do that? If not, then stand down why don't you?

American political leaders should be held accountable for the actions of American soldiers.

British political leaders should be held accountable for the actions of British soldiers.

Any of this over your head, McG?

I see. You guys don't wish to discuss this, you only wish to continue the game of trading barbs. Ok.

Sure, lets discuss. What is there to discuss?

Apparently nothing.

Frankly, I am pretty cynical about the behaviour of groups of humans at the best of times - but, putting them together in groups whose purpose is aggression - well....

One has but to look at the behaviour of many sporting teams - both on, and especially OFF field, I think.

I am unaware of any evidece so far that the Brit government has changed its policies on torture - or deliberately deprived its prisoners of all legal status, however - as the US has done in Guantanamo - and in its "secret" prisons. Does anyone have any info on that? Are the Brits, for instance, sending some of their prisoners to Arab countries to be tortured???

This may be one reason why the American stuff has been focussed on more - at least in the US. The British story was HUGE in Britain - I do not know about Europe???? It was very big here - as was the involvement of an Oz official in NOT blowing the whistle on Abu Ghraib, when he could and should have done so.

I think, to be honest that, while the American right here will think that the Brit story was not so huge on A2k because everyone is a Bush/America basher, that, in fact, their being an overwhelmingly American membershiop here simply means that only American stuff gets taken up, and turned into grist for the mainly American people here who love to snipe at each other constantly.

Edit: Actually, on re-thinking, there has been a lot of evidence of British Intelligence and military mistreatment of IRA prisoners in Ireland, though. If you looked up allegations of British misconduct there, I think you might find a lot.

Re Iraq - searching The Guardian's data base would be very likely to turn up discussions of possible Brit government/Intelligence service involvement in systematic mistreatment of prisoners.

you're killing me. this entire thread was started as a nyah nyah nyah barb buddy...if you can't take it don't dish it out.

ms. buns what exactly is a snipe anyway? I've heard of them...do you have them in Australa?

I can agree with all of that, dlowan. Especially about the behavior of humans. One of the reasons I'm anti-war and one of the reasons why I was not surprised by any of the torture allegations. I guess that's why I feel there's nothing to discuss.

Of course, if we found out that folks in the British government were drafting legal opinions designed to show that there was no need to adhere to the Geneve Conventions and seeking to redefine torture, I might have something to say about the leaders of the British government.

You're gonna be soooo sorry you asked:

snipe [snaɪp]

v. hunt snipe; shoot from a distant or concealed position

n. long-billed wading bird of Eurasia and North America; shot fired from a distant or concealed position Britannica.com

• snipe

any of about 20 species belonging to the shorebird family Scolopacidae (order Charadriiformes). Snipes frequent wet meadows and marshes and occur in temperate and warm regions worldwide. They are short-legged, long-billed, chunky birds that are striped and barred in brown, black, and white. The wings are pointed and angular, the eyes rear-set.
Learn more at Britannica.com Railroad-Related Terms

• snipe

The title of a track laborer or Gandy dancer. One who builds or repairs railroad track.

Worldgolf

• snipe

A ball that is hooked and drops quickly Dictionary of Automotive Terms

• Snipe

A long extension applied to the handle of a wrench in order to increase the leverage in removing a stubborn bolt or nut.

Aotearoa

• Gallinago hardwickii

Japanese snipe
gallinago hardwickii
A migrant vagrant

• Macroramphosus scolopax

Common snipefish


Native demersal fish
The Common Snipefish is an oval-shaped fish with an extremely long snout and a long, serrated second dorsal spine. The rigid body is highly compressed and has a bony ridge and several scutes on the belly. The Common Snipefish is pink to orange above fading to silvery below. Juveniles are silvery-blue.

• Nemichthyidae

Snipe eel family
NZ genera include: Avocettina, Labichthys, Nemichthys

• Snares Island Snipe

Coenocorypha aucklandica huegeli
Maori tutukiwi
Native bird English-Bulgarian

• snipe

1 n бекас;2 v стрелям от прикритие;snipe; n 1. зоол. (pl без изменение) голяма бекасина (Capella media); 2. изстрел от засада Chinese idioms explained in English

• 鹬蚌相争，渔翁得利

yu4 bang4 xiang1 zheng1, yu2 weng1 de2 li4
When the snipe and a clam were fighting, the fisherman caught them both.
Two dogs fight for a bone and the third runs away with it.
Shakespeare Words

• snipe

a person not worth consideration, a pain in the... hEnglish - advanced version

• snipe


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
snipe
\snipe\ (?), n. [oe. snipe; akin to d. snep, snip, lg. sneppe, snippe, g. schnepfe, icel. snīpa (in comp.), dan. sneppe, sw. sn?ppa a sanpiper, and possibly to e. snap. see snap, snaffle.]
1. (zo?l.) any one of numerous species of limicoline game birds of the family scolopacid?, having a long, slender, nearly straight beak.
note: the common, or whole, snipe (gallinago cœlestis) and the great, or double, snipe (g. major), are the most important european species. the wilson's snipe (g. delicata) (sometimes erroneously called english snipe) and the gray snipe, or dowitcher (macrohamphus griseus), are well-known american species.
2. a fool; a blockhead. [r.]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
similar words(31)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WordNet 2.0

• snipe


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Noun
1. Old or New World straight-billed game bird of the sandpiper family; of marshy areas; similar to the woodcocks
(hypernym) shorebird, shore bird, limicoline bird
(hyponym) whole snipe, common snipe, Gallinago gallinago
(member-holonym) wisp
2. a gunshot from a concealed location
(hypernym) gunfire, gunshot
(derivation) sharpshoot

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Verb
1. hunt or shoot snipe
(hypernym) hunt, run, hunt down, track down
2. aim and shoot with great precision
(synonym) sharpshoot
(hypernym) shoot
3. attack in speech or writing; "The editors of the left-leaning paper attacked the new House Speaker"
(synonym) attack, round, assail, lash out, assault
(hypernym) knock, criticize, criticise, pick apart
(hyponym) abuse, clapperclaw, blackguard, shoutsnipe [snaɪp]

v. hunt snipe; shoot from a distant or concealed position

n. long-billed wading bird of Eurasia and North America; shot fired from a distant or concealed position Britannica.com

• snipe

any of about 20 species belonging to the shorebird family Scolopacidae (order Charadriiformes). Snipes frequent wet meadows and marshes and occur in temperate and warm regions worldwide. They are short-legged, long-billed, chunky birds that are striped and barred in brown, black, and white. The wings are pointed and angular, the eyes rear-set.
Learn more at Britannica.com Railroad-Related Terms

• snipe

The title of a track laborer or Gandy dancer. One who builds or repairs railroad track.

Worldgolf

• snipe

A ball that is hooked and drops quickly Dictionary of Automotive Terms

• Snipe

A long extension applied to the handle of a wrench in order to increase the leverage in removing a stubborn bolt or nut.

Aotearoa

• Gallinago hardwickii

Japanese snipe
gallinago hardwickii
A migrant vagrant

• Macroramphosus scolopax

Common snipefish


Native demersal fish
The Common Snipefish is an oval-shaped fish with an extremely long snout and a long, serrated second dorsal spine. The rigid body is highly compressed and has a bony ridge and several scutes on the belly. The Common Snipefish is pink to orange above fading to silvery below. Juveniles are silvery-blue.

• Nemichthyidae

Snipe eel family
NZ genera include: Avocettina, Labichthys, Nemichthys

• Snares Island Snipe

Coenocorypha aucklandica huegeli
Maori tutukiwi
Native bird English-Bulgarian

• snipe

1 n бекас;2 v стрелям от прикритие;snipe; n 1. зоол. (pl без изменение) голяма бекасина (Capella media); 2. изстрел от засада Chinese idioms explained in English

• 鹬蚌相争，渔翁得利

yu4 bang4 xiang1 zheng1, yu2 weng1 de2 li4
When the snipe and a clam were fighting, the fisherman caught them both.
Two dogs fight for a bone and the third runs away with it.
Shakespeare Words

• snipe

a person not worth consideration, a pain in the... hEnglish - advanced version

• snipe


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
snipe
\snipe\ (?), n. [oe. snipe; akin to d. snep, snip, lg. sneppe, snippe, g. schnepfe, icel. snīpa (in comp.), dan. sneppe, sw. sn?ppa a sanpiper, and possibly to e. snap. see snap, snaffle.]
1. (zo?l.) any one of numerous species of limicoline game birds of the family scolopacid?, having a long, slender, nearly straight beak.
note: the common, or whole, snipe (gallinago cœlestis) and the great, or double, snipe (g. major), are the most important european species. the wilson's snipe (g. delicata) (sometimes erroneously called english snipe) and the gray snipe, or dowitcher (macrohamphus griseus), are well-known american species.
2. a fool; a blockhead. [r.]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
similar words(31)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WordNet 2.0

• snipe


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Noun
1. Old or New World straight-billed game bird of the sandpiper family; of marshy areas; similar to the woodcocks
(hypernym) shorebird, shore bird, limicoline bird
(hyponym) whole snipe, common snipe, Gallinago gallinago
(member-holonym) wisp
2. a gunshot from a concealed location
(hypernym) gunfire, gunshot
(derivation) sharpshoot

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Verb
1. hunt or shoot snipe
(hypernym) hunt, run, hunt down, track down
2. aim and shoot with great precision
(synonym) sharpshoot
(hypernym) shoot
3. attack in speech or writing; "The editors of the left-leaning paper attacked the new House Speaker"
(synonym) attack, round, assail, lash out, assault
(hypernym) knock, criticize, criticise, pick apart
(hyponym) abuse, clapperclaw, blackguard, shoutsnipe [snaɪp]

v. hunt snipe; shoot from a distant or concealed position

n. long-billed wading bird of Eurasia and North America; shot fired from a distant or concealed position Britannica.com

• snipe

any of about 20 species belonging to the shorebird family Scolopacidae (order Charadriiformes). Snipes frequent wet meadows and marshes and occur in temperate and warm regions worldwide. They are short-legged, long-billed, chunky birds that are striped and barred in brown, black, and white. The wings are pointed and angular, the eyes rear-set.
Learn more at Britannica.com Railroad-Related Terms

• snipe

The title of a track laborer or Gandy dancer. One who builds or repairs railroad track.

Worldgolf

• snipe

A ball that is hooked and drops quickly Dictionary of Automotive Terms

• Snipe

A long extension applied to the handle of a wrench in order to increase the leverage in removing a stubborn bolt or nut.

Aotearoa

• Gallinago hardwickii

Japanese snipe
gallinago hardwickii
A migrant vagrant

• Macroramphosus scolopax

Common snipefish


Native demersal fish
The Common Snipefish is an oval-shaped fish with an extremely long snout and a long, serrated second dorsal spine. The rigid body is highly compressed and has a bony ridge and several scutes on the belly. The Common Snipefish is pink to orange above fading to silvery below. Juveniles are silvery-blue.

• Nemichthyidae

Snipe eel family
NZ genera include: Avocettina, Labichthys, Nemichthys

• Snares Island Snipe

Coenocorypha aucklandica huegeli
Maori tutukiwi
Native bird English-Bulgarian

• snipe

1 n бекас;2 v стрелям от прикритие;snipe; n 1. зоол. (pl без изменение) голяма бекасина (Capella media); 2. изстрел от засада Chinese idioms explained in English

• 鹬蚌相争，渔翁得利

yu4 bang4 xiang1 zheng1, yu2 weng1 de2 li4
When the snipe and a clam were fighting, the fisherman caught them both.
Two dogs fight for a bone and the third runs away with it.
Shakespeare Words

• snipe

a person not worth consideration, a pain in the... hEnglish - advanced version

• snipe


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
snipe
\snipe\ (?), n. [oe. snipe; akin to d. snep, snip, lg. sneppe, snippe, g. schnepfe, icel. snīpa (in comp.), dan. sneppe, sw. sn?ppa a sanpiper, and possibly to e. snap. see snap, snaffle.]
1. (zo?l.) any one of numerous species of limicoline game birds of the family scolopacid?, having a long, slender, nearly straight beak.
note: the common, or whole, snipe (gallinago cœlestis) and the great, or double, snipe (g. major), are the most important european species. the wilson's snipe (g. delicata) (sometimes erroneously called english snipe) and the gray snipe, or dowitcher (macrohamphus griseus), are well-known american species.
2. a fool; a blockhead. [r.]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
similar words(31)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WordNet 2.0

• snipe


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Noun
1. Old or New World straight-billed game bird of the sandpiper family; of marshy areas; similar to the woodcocks
(hypernym) shorebird, shore bird, limicoline bird
(hyponym) whole snipe, common snipe, Gallinago gallinago
(member-holonym) wisp
2. a gunshot from a concealed location
(hypernym) gunfire, gunshot
(derivation) sharpshoot

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Verb
1. hunt or shoot snipe
(hypernym) hunt, run, hunt down, track down
2. aim and shoot with great precision
(synonym) sharpshoot
(hypernym) shoot
3. attack in speech or writing; "The editors of the left-leaning paper attacked the new House Speaker"
(synonym) attack, round, assail, lash out, assault
(hypernym) knock, criticize, criticise, pick apart
(hyponym) abuse, clapperclaw, blackguard, shout



But - here is the meaning closest to Mc Gentrix's use of the word:

snipe [snaɪp]

v. hunt snipe; shoot from a distant or concealed position

n. long-billed wading bird of Eurasia and North America; shot fired from a distant or concealed position Britannica.com

• snipe

any of about 20 species belonging to the shorebird family Scolopacidae (order Charadriiformes). Snipes frequent wet meadows and marshes and occur in temperate and warm regions worldwide. They are short-legged, long-billed, chunky birds that are striped and barred in brown, black, and white. The wings are pointed and angular, the eyes rear-set.
Learn more at Britannica.com Railroad-Related Terms

• snipe

The title of a track laborer or Gandy dancer. One who builds or repairs railroad track.

Worldgolf

• snipe

A ball that is hooked and drops quickly Dictionary of Automotive Terms

• Snipe

A long extension applied to the handle of a wrench in order to increase the leverage in removing a stubborn bolt or nut.

Aotearoa

• Gallinago hardwickii

Japanese snipe
gallinago hardwickii
A migrant vagrant

• Macroramphosus scolopax

Common snipefish


Native demersal fish
The Common Snipefish is an oval-shaped fish with an extremely long snout and a long, serrated second dorsal spine. The rigid body is highly compressed and has a bony ridge and several scutes on the belly. The Common Snipefish is pink to orange above fading to silvery below. Juveniles are silvery-blue.

• Nemichthyidae

Snipe eel family
NZ genera include: Avocettina, Labichthys, Nemichthys

• Snares Island Snipe

Coenocorypha aucklandica huegeli
Maori tutukiwi
Native bird English-Bulgarian

• snipe

1 n бекас;2 v стрелям от прикритие;snipe; n 1. зоол. (pl без изменение) голяма бекасина (Capella media); 2. изстрел от засада Chinese idioms explained in English

• 鹬蚌相争，渔翁得利

yu4 bang4 xiang1 zheng1, yu2 weng1 de2 li4
When the snipe and a clam were fighting, the fisherman caught them both.
Two dogs fight for a bone and the third runs away with it.
Shakespeare Words

• snipe

a person not worth consideration, a pain in the... hEnglish - advanced version

• snipe


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
snipe
\snipe\ (?), n. [oe. snipe; akin to d. snep, snip, lg. sneppe, snippe, g. schnepfe, icel. snīpa (in comp.), dan. sneppe, sw. sn?ppa a sanpiper, and possibly to e. snap. see snap, snaffle.]
1. (zo?l.) any one of numerous species of limicoline game birds of the family scolopacid?, having a long, slender, nearly straight beak.
note: the common, or whole, snipe (gallinago cœlestis) and the great, or double, snipe (g. major), are the most important european species. the wilson's snipe (g. delicata) (sometimes erroneously called english snipe) and the gray snipe, or dowitcher (macrohamphus griseus), are well-known american species.
2. a fool; a blockhead. [r.]


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
similar words(31)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
WordNet 2.0

• snipe


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Noun
1. Old or New World straight-billed game bird of the sandpiper family; of marshy areas; similar to the woodcocks
(hypernym) shorebird, shore bird, limicoline bird
(hyponym) whole snipe, common snipe, Gallinago gallinago
(member-holonym) wisp
2. a gunshot from a concealed location
(hypernym) gunfire, gunshot
(derivation) sharpshoot

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Verb
1. hunt or shoot snipe
(hypernym) hunt, run, hunt down, track down
2. aim and shoot with great precision
(synonym) sharpshoot
(hypernym) shoot
3. attack in speech or writing; "The editors of the left-leaning paper attacked the new House Speaker"
(synonym) attack, round, assail, lash out, assault
(hypernym) knock, criticize, criticise, pick apart
(hyponym) abuse, clapperclaw, blackguard, shout