7
   

What is Evangelism?

 
 
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Tue 17 May, 2022 10:57 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

You're confusing "waves" and "hills." Those are "waves"... A hill is where land (or in this case, water), does not flop up for a few seconds and fall back down. Hills are a permanent slope where one can climb the surface without disturbing the structure.


Bulma...let's just suppose you are right for a bit...just for the purposes of discussion. You seem willing to go to great lengths to explain why certain things should be but aren't...and why other things should not be, but are...on this flat Earth. I would love to hear your explanation for one particular...so that I can consider it when making my evaluation.

I have relatives who live in California. If I were to call them at sun-up...they would be mightily pissed, because, at this time of year, the sun "comes up" out here where I live in the far eastern edge of the US at about 5:30...but it doesn't come up until over three hours later (in the far west edge of the US) where they live.

I also have a close cousin who lives in Beirut, Lebanon...and if he were to call me at his sun-down (8:30 PM)...I would receive the call at about 3:00 in the morning my time, because of the 7 hour time differential.

Since the Earth is flat...why does this happen? Why doesn't the Sun come up at about the same time everywhere?
izzythepush
 
  1  
Tue 17 May, 2022 11:13 am
@Frank Apisa,
Ringworld by Larry Niven, is an SF classic about an artificially constructed world consisting of a ring around a sun.

In a smaller orbit is another ring with clear and dark platex which bring about night and day.

There is a description of what it's like in the ring, which although not exactly flat Earth has some similarities.

Niven states that because it's a ring, and not a sphere there'sno event horizon, instead the world disappears off into the sky ending in what looks like two large columns.

In the novel there is a hero on a auest to reach the columns, but of course he never will.

I read it a very long time ago, and it's an enjoyable read.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Tue 17 May, 2022 11:51 am
@TheCobbler,
Gravity is not a force.
http://flatearth101.com/gravity
Gravity is "magic." We say something is so with gravity... and voila! It all makes sense now! Amazing!

Blue comments
Quote:
Wilbur Voliva, a famous flat-Earther in the early 20th century, gave lectures all over America against Newtonian astronomy. He would begin by walking on stage with a book, a balloon, a feather and a brick, and ask the audience: “How is it that a law of gravitation can pull up a toy balloon and cannot put up a brick? I throw up this book. Why doesn’t it go on up? That book went up as far as the force behind it forced it and it fell because it was heavier than the air and that is the only reason. I cut the string of a toy balloon. It rises, gets to a certain height and then it begins to settle. I take this brick and a feather. I blow the feather. Yonder it goes. Finally, it begins to settle and comes down. This brick goes up as far as the force forces it and then it comes down because it is heavier than the air. That is all.”

What he is talking about is layers of density. In the brick's case, it is heavier than most layers of water (but not at the very deepest, very there are possibly even denser objects). The book is probably light enough to float, but heavier than the air. If the feather's case it is heavier than the air, but only slightly. It's light enough that propulsion (wind/blowing air at it) will hold it aloft, only for to return to the ground when there is no more propulsion. The balloon actually has upward loft because of whatever gas is in it. If it's say helium it might get quite high, but will eventually settle at that height and not go any higher. If it managed to, depressurization would pop the balloon.

“Any object which is heavier than the air, and which is unsupported, has a natural tendency to fall by its own weight. Newton's famous apple at Woolsthorpe, or any other apple when ripe, loses hold of its stalk, and, being heavier than the air, drops as a matter of necessity, to the ground, totally irrespective of any attraction of the Earth.
In other words, it falls by being heavier than air, not because of some invisible "force."
For, if such attraction existed, why does not the Earth attract the rising smoke which is not nearly so heavy as the apple?
If a force such as gravity did exist, objects with weak upward propulsion would fall as quickly as heavier objects, as they are pulled toward the ground by a force with greater gravity than their mass. But propulsion is not needed for an object to continue flying, only sufficiently low mass and initial propulsion (the flames boosting the smoke into the air). It continues at its elevation even after leaving the source of the flame .
The answer is simple - because the smoke is lighter than the air, and, therefore, does not fall but ascends. Gravitation is only a subterfuge, employed by Newton in his attempt to prove that the Earth revolves round the Sun, and the quicker it is relegated to the tomb of all the Capulets, the better will it be for all classes of society.” -David Wardlaw Scott, “Terra Firma”


Quote:
Heliocentrists claim the ball-Earth is perpetually spinning on its axis at a mind-numbing 1,038 miles per hour, or 19 miles per second, and somehow people, animals, buildings, oceans, and other surface phenomena can stick to the under-side of the spinning ball without falling or flying off. Take a ride on the “Gravitron” at your local amusement park, however, and notice how the faster it spins, the more you are pushed away from the center of spin, not towards it. Even if the centripetal (inward pulling) force of gravity did exist, which it does not, the centrifugal (outward pushing) force of the ball-Earth’s supposed 19 mile per second spin would also exist and have to be overcome, yet neither of these opposing forces have ever been shown to have any existence outside the imaginations of heliocentric “scientists.”


Let's even assume that this is divided by the total surface of the Earth. The gravitron at 24 rpm in less than 20 seconds lifts us aloft. Likewise, it takes winds of only 45 mph to move a person. The rotation of the Earth, then, would not produce gravity, but rather anti-gravity. So it is safer to say (Occam's Razor) that there is a distinct lack of rotation than there is gravity and centripetal force in constant motion, yet we fail to notice either of these and there is simultaneously force enough to hold objects upside-down, yet the Bar-tailed Godwit can fly as easily in southern hemisphere NZ as it can in northern hemisphere Siberia.

Which is it? Gravity is a weak enough force that a bird this small can fly over 26,500 ft (nearly the height of Mount Everest)?
https://www.worldatlas.com/r/w960-q80/upload/b5/0b/74/bergdohle-1513973-640.jpg
Or is it a strong enough force to do this?
http://flatearth101.com/files/resized/498389/750;484;6924d3a05e62f885ef143700fc13bc80012cc456.jpg
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Tue 17 May, 2022 12:47 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Actually, they're not that great of lengths.

Not when compared with the lengths people in NASA go to make billions. It takes me about an hour to doctor one image, to show exactly how they do it. It's a simple curve bend and crop job. Meanwhile, they polish the photo so that it looks "real". Likewise, the scientists in their pocket come up with theory after theory.

1. If the Earth is rotating, wobbling, and orbiting, why aren't we feeling motion sick?

"Oh that's easy, it's because all of this happens at a steady speed so you don't feel it (Oh really? So if I ride a roller coaster, and it's turning along a track sideways but never loses speed I won't feel violently ill?)"

2. Wait, if the Earth is moving at a constant speed, every six months, shouldn't the day and night be reversed as we wind up behind the sun, when before the sun was in front of us?
https://timeandnavigation.si.edu/sites/default/files/multimedia-assets/300-si_fl_siderial_time_13_fa_flat_rev_5-14.jpg
"Oh, it's because of sidereal days! The system works, trust us!"

3. If the Earth is suddenly shifting like this, shouldn't it screw with tides or something? I mean, the Earth is suddenly switching direction, and the moon should be in a different place, then.

"Oh that's easy it's because... (other excuse) teleportation, that's it!"

Quote:
I have relatives who live in California. If I were to call them at sun-up...they would be mightily pissed, because, at this time of year, the sun "comes up" out here where I live in the far eastern edge of the US at about 5:30...but it doesn't come up until over three hours later (in the far west edge of the US) where they live.

I also have a close cousin who lives in Beirut, Lebanon...and if he were to call me at his sun-down (8:30 PM)...I would receive the call at about 3:00 in the morning my time, because of the 7 hour time differential.

Since the Earth is flat...why does this happen? Why doesn't the Sun come up at about the same time everywhere?


When you have an eclipse, the sun and moon seem to move in the path of each other, no? Then they kinda lock up and you either see a lunar eclipse or a solar eclipse. They seem to be the same size, and just move in front of each other.

"No, you're just seeing things, it's really this happening."
https://www.mytwintiers.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/89/2022/05/Lunar-Eclipse-1.jpg?w=900
https://snowbrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/eclipse_explainer-min.jpg

(Occam's Razor!!! Why aren't they just the same size?!? Also, that in no way is an eclipse. To eclipse something is to block it. In a flat Earth scenario, lunar eclipse has the moon with the sun behind it, lined up with Earth, while solar eclipse has the sun in front, which is why the solar eclipse is unsafe to look at, because we are looking directly at the sun with the moon creating a shadow. It still doesn't occur everywhere, because it only lines up in a specific place at a specific time of day)

See, that's the thing, the sun and moon are actually only big enough to show up in a portion of the sky. As they move out of sight, they "set."

There's a simple experiment that you can perform. Go to a dark room, the darkest in your house (draw the shades if necessary or wait until night). Get a small, non fragile lamp, one the you can lift, and either a long extension cord or a lantern. Like this...
https://www.amara.com/static/uploads/images-2/products/x/huge/1571032/lucca-outdoor-portable-lamp-black-381159.jpg
Start by measuring the circle of the light, and gradually lift the lantern and remeasure. It will have to be pretty distant to start to shrink in size, generally growing the higher you lift it. This is a small object, so you had better believe that an object as huge as you've been told the sun is will cast light enough to cover the entire world if it's at a distant enough point. So now, we're going to lower it again, just enough barely be above the ground. And I want you to get a map (preferably big and with not corrections, such as a sea chart or something).
https://printablemapaz.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/sea-surface-temperature-sst-contour-charts-office-of-satellite-florida-water-temperature-map.gif
Blow this map up to a size where the light only barely touches the south hemisphere, taping sheets of paper together. This time, go very slowly from east to west in a straight line starting at the northern hemisphere. Now, the Earth is a disc, not a square, but this gives you a general idea what's happening. The light from this "sun" is rising in east because it's coming from the east and setting into the west because it's moving out of sight toward the west. As you move, gradually, the light will drop from sight in places and come into sight in others. Also note that the southern hemisphere isn't getting as much sun. I learned about this when going to South Africa. Our summers were their winters because of something called seasonal inversion. It freaked me out, but yeah this is a thing. So do it again but this time for the southern part of the map. You'll note that now the north side has winter weather due to lack of heat and light. You'll also notice that areas near the extremes get a minimum amount of sun. This is consistent with what we know about the Earth.

If you have a disc-shaped map like some of the flat Earth ones, you move the sun along either the outer circle or the inner circle (where the Tropic of Cancer and Capricorn would be).

The sun is smaller than you are told, roughly the same size as the moon. It's not a distance thing, because the sun is a great deal more maneuverable at lower speeds than the blinding speed that Earth supposedly orbits/rotates/etc. This is due to its position and proximity to Earth. It is able to move around the Earth in 24 hours much like a light moving overhead.
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Tue 17 May, 2022 01:00 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


Actually, they're not that great of lengths.

Not when compared with the lengths people in NASA go to make billions. It takes me about an hour to doctor one image, to show exactly how they do it. It's a simple curve bend and crop job. Meanwhile, they polish the photo so that it looks "real". Likewise, the scientists in their pocket come up with theory after theory.

1. If the Earth is rotating, wobbling, and orbiting, why aren't we feeling motion sick?

"Oh that's easy, it's because all of this (Oh really? So if I ride a roller coaster, and it's turning along a track sideways but never loses speed I won't feel violently ill?)"

2. Wait, if the Earth is moving at a constant speed, every six months, shouldn't the day and night be reversed as we wind up behind the sun when before the sun was in front of us?
https://timeandnavigation.si.edu/sites/default/files/multimedia-assets/300-si_fl_siderial_time_13_fa_flat_rev_5-14.jpg
"Oh, it's because of sidereal days! The system works, trust us!"

3. If the Earth is suddenly shifting like this, shouldn't it screw with tides or something? I mean, the Earth is suddenly switching direction, and the moon should be in a different place, then.

"Oh that's easy it's because... (other excuse)"

Quote:
I have relatives who live in California. If I were to call them at sun-up...they would be mightily pissed, because, at this time of year, the sun "comes up" out here where I live in the far eastern edge of the US at about 5:30...but it doesn't come up until over three hours later (in the far west edge of the US) where they live.

I also have a close cousin who lives in Beirut, Lebanon...and if he were to call me at his sun-down (8:30 PM)...I would receive the call at about 3:00 in the morning my time, because of the 7 hour time differential.

Since the Earth is flat...why does this happen? Why doesn't the Sun come up at about the same time everywhere?


When you have an eclipse, the sun and moon seem to move in the path of each other, no? Then they kinda lock up and you either see a lunar eclipse or a solar eclipse. They seem to be the same size, and just move in front of each other.

"No, you're just seeing things, it's really this happening."
https://www.mytwintiers.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/89/2022/05/Lunar-Eclipse-1.jpg?w=900
https://snowbrains.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/eclipse_explainer-min.jpg

(Occam's Razor!!! Why aren't they just the same size?!? Also, that in no way is an eclipse. To eclipse something is to block it. In a flat Earth scenario, lunar eclipse has the moon with the sun behind it, lined up with Earth, while solar eclipse has the sun in front, which is why the solar eclipse is unsafe to look at, because we are looking directly at the sun. It still doesn't occur everywhere because it only lines up in a specific place)

See, that's the thing, the sun and moon are actually only big enough to show up in a portion of the sky. As they move out of sight, they "set."

There's a simple experiment that you can perform. Go to a dark room, the darkest in your house (draw the shades if necessary or wait until night). Get a small, non fragile lamp, one the you can lift, and either a long extension cord or a lantern. Like this...
https://www.amara.com/static/uploads/images-2/products/x/huge/1571032/lucca-outdoor-portable-lamp-black-381159.jpg
Start by measuring the circle of the light, and gradually lift the lantern and remeasure. It will have to be pretty distant to start to shrink in size, generally growing the higher you lift it. This is a small object, so you had better believe that an object as huge as you've been told the sun is will cast light enough to cover the entire world if it's at a distant enough point. So now, we're going to lower it again, just enough barely be above the ground. And I want you to get a map (preferably big and with not corrections, such as a sea chart or something).
https://printablemapaz.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/sea-surface-temperature-sst-contour-charts-office-of-satellite-florida-water-temperature-map.gif
Blow this map up to a size where the light only barely touches the south hemisphere, taping sheets of paper together. This time, go very slowly from east to west in a straight line starting at the northern hemisphere. Now, the Earth is a disc, not a square, but this gives you a general idea what's happening. The light from this "sun" is rising in east because it's coming from the east and setting into the west because it's moving out of sight toward the west. As you move, gradually, the light will drop from sight in places and come into sight in others. Also note that the southern hemisphere isn't getting as much sun. I learned about this when going to South Africa. Our summers were their winters because of something called seasonal inversion. It freaked me out, but yeah this is a thing. So do it again but this time for the southern part of the map. You'll note that now the north side has winter weather. You'll also notice that areas near the extremes get a minimum amount of sun. This is consistent with what we know about the Earth.

If you have a disc-shaped map like some of the flat Earth ones, you move the sun along either the outer circle or the inner circle (where the Tropic of Cancer and Capricorn would be).

The sun is smaller than you are told, roughly the same size as the moon. It's not a distance thing, because the sun is a great deal more maneuverable at lower speeds than the blinding speed that Earth supposedly orbits/rotates/etc. This is due to its position and proximity to Earth. It is able to move around the Earth in 24 hours much like a light moving overhead.


Ummm...Bulma, that was not your best effort.

If the Earth is flat as we are assuming for right now...why are daylight hours not the same for everyone....and nighttime hours the same?

Why are areas further west from a given point light later and dark later than places east of them? And able to be scheduled and quantified.

C'mon, now...let us hear a scenario that accounts for that.

By the way, just to be sure...an adjunct question: Do you agree that night and day are a function of the Earth rotating (in some way) or do you think science is also wrong about that...that the Sun moves around the Earth causing night and day?
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Tue 17 May, 2022 02:31 pm
@Frank Apisa,
I'm not trying to "come up" with an explanation.

It's a matter of centering light on an area. The very center gets the best sun, while the outskirts get substantially less. During different seasons to northern or southern hemisphere gets more or less sun. But equator typically overlaps all year long. You have shorter or longer days depending on the season because light barely hits those areas (at the edge, the sun crosses only a few hours). And you can predict this because the sun moves in a predictable path crossing past the Earth every day.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/816868397836926996/976214591984001034/greyscale_worldmap.png

I think the sun in this map I drew is too high.
Prior to the wide acceptance of global theory, the Tropic of Cancer and Capricorn were actually relevant. They were the areas where the sun passed in summer and winter. The equator gets hit by sun year around due to overlap, with it probably being hotter in the middle of the year. I'll check if that's right. Galapagos Islands are equatorial, so I'll look that up.

https://www.greengotravel.com/blog/galapagos-weather-by-month-guide/

Yup, the highest temperature months are March, April, and May rather than being equally warm all year. It starts to drop again in June, with a slight warm season December to just before March.

This "lantern" would basically have the most hours near its center, expanding outward would still have alot of hours, but the edge areas might get stiffed (winter sunlight).

Quote:
Why are areas further west from a given point light later and dark later than places east of them?


Uhhhh it heads east to west? <-----
Earlier on, it's in like China or somewhere, and later, it's in SoCal. By the time the time zones catch up, it's later in the day. If we had universal time, this would be blatantly obvious. California would have a sunrise about three hours later, because this is when the sun makes it there.

https://preview.redd.it/9tfwvq87jcxz.jpg?auto=webp&s=20838258f885cf040cdbfae0b40cd4da6f4fe98f

In contrast, there is no way in hell that you can predict a wobbling, orbiting, rotating object. It would literally be spiraling all over the place. You wouldn't have the same hours of sunlight from day to day. Every day, you would have this wobble throwing something off, and the motion of about three axises means it could end up diagonal or backwards from yesterday. BULL...****.

Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 02:25 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:

I'm not trying to "come up" with an explanation.


I suspect you are, but you are not being successful. And rather than simply acknowledge that you are not succeeding, you are pretending that you are not.

Quote:
It's a matter of centering light on an area. The very center gets the best sun, while the outskirts get substantially less. During different seasons to northern or southern hemisphere gets more or less sun. But equator typically overlaps all year long. You have shorter or longer days depending on the season because light barely hits those areas (at the edge, the sun crosses only a few hours). And you can predict this because the sun moves in a predictable path crossing past the Earth every day.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/816868397836926996/976214591984001034/greyscale_worldmap.png

I think the sun in this map I drew is too high.
Prior to the wide acceptance of global theory, the Tropic of Cancer and Capricorn were actually relevant. They were the areas where the sun passed in summer and winter. The equator gets hit by sun year around due to overlap, with it probably being hotter in the middle of the year. I'll check if that's right. Galapagos Islands are equatorial, so I'll look that up.

https://www.greengotravel.com/blog/galapagos-weather-by-month-guide/

Yup, the highest temperature months are March, April, and May rather than being equally warm all year. It starts to drop again in June, with a slight warm season December to just before March.

This "lantern" would basically have the most hours near its center, expanding outward would still have alot of hours, but the edge areas might get stiffed (winter sunlight).

Quote:
Why are areas further west from a given point light later and dark later than places east of them?


Uhhhh it heads east to west? <-----
Earlier on, it's in like China or somewhere, and later, it's in SoCal. By the time the time zones catch up, it's later in the day. If we had universal time, this would be blatantly obvious. California would have a sunrise about three hours later, because this is when the sun makes it there.

https://preview.redd.it/9tfwvq87jcxz.jpg?auto=webp&s=20838258f885cf040cdbfae0b40cd4da6f4fe98f

In contrast, there is no way in hell that you can predict a wobbling, orbiting, rotating object. It would literally be spiraling all over the place. You wouldn't have the same hours of sunlight from day to day. Every day, you would have this wobble throwing something off, and the motion of about three axises means it could end up diagonal or backwards from yesterday. BULL...****.


That "lantern" of yours represents the Sun...and the Sun is gigantic compared with the Earth...and is over 90,000,000 miles away...not hovering over the Earth as shown in your "example." If this "flat Earth" of ours is facing it...the entire of it would be totally lit at the same time...and once it is facing away...the entire of it would be dark at the same time.

I am still interested in how you account for that...and how you account for the celestial mechanics to make it happen.

I asked about one particular. Allow me to do that again. Do you think the Earth rotating accounts for the darkness of night/light of day...or do you think science is wrong...and that the Sun actually circles the Earth?

The mechanics just do not seem to work...and I am wondering if you can come up with something that explains that.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Wed 18 May, 2022 08:55 am
@Frank Apisa,
In a non-orbiting non-wobbling (the Earth may spin, but I'm not sure why it needs to, and it screws with the path of other moving objects), domed vault atmosphere, flat disc demisphere (the point of Earth is not that there is no underground/underwater but that even if gravity does exist, it would unrealistic to expect people to hang like bats on the southern half of Earth, which is resolved by having hemisphere switch from "underside" to "inside/outside of section of disc") with curved edges (you can't fall off the Earth because space distorts as you head east and west, heading north leads you to the center at the North Pole, and heading south leads you to the atmospheric dome), and a orbiting nearby sun and moon...
(gasp) (breathe in)
...which is the model I'm using (the sun only needs to be that far away to explain away why the sun and moon look the same size if the sun is much bigger), there is no reason for the sun to be any larger that the moon. If it were, we'd all be fried extra crispy while the sun is up.

The sun simply orbits the Earth in a semi-regular pattern, gradually shifting hemispheres while it heads on a daily path at a regular schedule. It's the moon I can't figure out. I've seen the moon up during daylight hours before. I think when you see the moon around during the day, it's probably a new moon, and the moon gradually shifts from completely during night, to completely at day (hence the phases). This means the moon and sun are at a different rate. It also appears that they are on a different path, which is another reason I can buy the "Earth rotates and everything we see comes from that" there's a distinct sense of path to the sun and moon. Most flat Earth models I've seen have it across from the sun, circling around at the same rate, but I'm not sure that's so.

Anyway, I digress. Look at the picture I made. This picture is semi-accurate cuz I was actually trying. The sun gives light in a circle here from Russia/Japan/Korea in the north hemisphere to dim light in Australia and Africa, and gives light of some sort about 12 hours away. It simply heads west. As the light finally moves away, the vanishing point makes it appear to "dip", while it is directly above us at midday. I understand how this works on the real disc model but I wouldn't be able to explain it to you until you first understand how it works on this map.

So no, no explaining away size difference or why the sun does appear to move. Occam's Razor on this is just, "Yeah? The sun and moon ARE the same size, and the sun isn't 90,000,000 miles away, and yes they do orbit the Earth, and no I don't care about nearby planets. I think they're in an adjacent solar system with its own Sun, but our sun and moon orbit the Earth."

The sun (lowercase) orbits the Earth. Other planets may have a Sun that they are subject to, but they don't have life to deal with. Life is fragile, gets motion sick from constant movement, and blood rush from hanging upside-down. There is simply no way that a world that holds life was designed that way. Life designed to live on a sphere would have to have perfect symmetry (like an urchin or something), a simple internal system, and no objections to a curved gravitational system or anything else. We'd be looking at tribbles, not humans or deer or cats.
https://scifanatic-wpengine.netdna-ssl.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/05/tribble_on_desk.jpg
A tribble could survive on a planet with all the stuff you imagine. Humans need pretty finicky conditions (not too hot, not too cold, to be able to stand upright, air, water, and alot of other things just the right way). I suppose fish could probably survive too, because marine life is used to omnidirectional motion. But all land species, especially birds, would find themselves in extreme discomfort. Maybe planarians would be okay too.

These other planets aren't what I'd call worlds. They are more like large asteroids with various conditions of inhospitably.

The mechanism doesn't seem to work to you because you were probably told the world was round (it is, but like a record player) when you were less than the age of reason. It is very very difficult to stop believing something you were told repeatedly as a young child. And because you're imagining a bigger sun. Do the lantern/flashlight experiment. See if it clears anything up for you.
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Wed 18 May, 2022 09:13 am
@bulmabriefs144,
Bulma

Okay...so the scientists are wrong about the composition of our solar system...and the mechanics by which they say it runs. Instead, the Sun (of whatever size) revolves around our flat Earth.

Let's live with that.

This morning, when I left for the golf course, the sun had barely risen. It was, for the most part, below the tree line. The only reason I knew it was up...was because it was light...and I could EASILY see that it was day.

Earlier, when I first gotten up, I could see that it was night. I rise at 4:00 am.

So even though the sun was not far up in the sky...in fact VERY, VERY low to the ground...it looked like day.

Now that Sun had just come up over our flat Earth...very far away. It came up in the East...and I have been east of where I live...and there is a big ocean there...The Mighty Atlantic Ocean. I've actually been across that ocean and visited England and Europe...so I know that when the Sun came up over our flat Earth...it was coming up very far to the East...thousands of miles away.

So I still cannot understand why everyone on Earth does not have the same daylight hours as I do. IF the people in England and Europe were seeing the rising Sun at the same time as I here in America...why are there still people with night-time?

In fact, I am wondering how any night-time can exist, because the Sun "is up" somewhere every minute of the day...and with our flat Earth...that mans there never is a night time anywhere.

I am NOT arguing that the Earth is a sphere, here, Bulma. I just want to know how everyone on our flat Earth does not share the same day hours...or at least, close to the same.

Can you help me with that?
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 11:39 am
Google
It would just take about 45 hours for a Boeing 747 passenger aircraft to fly around the earth's circumference. Nov 21, 2021

And,
If the earth was flat, the oceans would pour off the edges and there would be no seas left...

Oh and an eclipse of the moon,

https://lite-images-i.scdn.co/image/ab67616d0000b2732a06e5ba08a7f6470777e1ae
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Wed 18 May, 2022 12:07 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
Okay...so the scientists are wrong about the composition of our solar system...and the mechanics by which they say it runs. Instead, the Sun (of whatever size) revolves around our flat Earth.


No. If they were simply wrong about it, I could live with that.

Here's what I cannot live with. Especially if people are not simply wrong, but lying to us.

Quote:
NASA's $25.2 billion budget for fiscal year 2021 is about a 12% increase over FY 2020.


For each billion in dollars of government expenditure, taxes for working and middle class are higher (the rich typically know tax loopholes, which is why they are rich, so it is senseless to as the left claims to do "tax the rich" as instead the poor and average are hurt by this). Between this and the "Ukraine crisis," we are paying upwards of $60 billion. You realize that the entire state of Alaska was paid for indefinitely with only $7 million? Supposing inflation is about 1000 times (probly not, but let's go with that) back then, you could buy a nice stretch of land or keep a whole country fed and clothed on that.

Instead, we waste it on a country I don't care about, and on pictures that could very well be fake. Do you see yet why this matters to me? It's not just lies and waste, it's egregious lies and waste.

To answer your other question, if the sun is not the size depicted in this...
https://www.evidencetoconsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/sun-moon-ratio2.jpg
(Even as far away as it supposedly is, I'm asking the same question about a sun that size!)
...but the exact same size as the moon in that picture, then yes, the light of the sun would not cover the whole Earth, but rather be more like a lantern light, only giving off a radius of light.

Btw, fun fact. You know sparklers? Those firework things you wave around in July 4th? Well uhhh, they actually have 1000+ degrees of heat (as much as 1800°F to 3000°F)! The average stove gives off only about 550°F of heat at maximum, but you can burn a roast with the latter, and not even cook bread with the former.
So what's going on here? Simple, heat is subject to mass.
https://www.sparklersonline.com/sparkler-safety/how-hot-are-sparklers-the-science-behind-your-wedding-light-show/
The smaller the object, the less it hurts us with its heat (of course, heat is also subject to diffusion as part of the laws of thermodynamics, which is why you cannot heat a house without steady heat pumping in).
A big sun necessarily has to be far away, or we get nicely browned. A small sun on the other hand gives us a sparkler effect, warm but not unbearable.

bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Wed 18 May, 2022 01:06 pm
@TheCobbler,
Okay, look at this picture.

https://external-preview.redd.it/yBWWMzFzg9sR1y59PP0m6HEXrZ6--79X5n0LpnkQbOw.png?auto=webp&s=eccfa0f18bde8c1c87060c4f618e6e4de0d4f08c

So to answer Frank's question too, insert a small yellow ball in each of these lines.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/816868397836926996/976556447288676412/flatness.png

This is the sun during two times of year. The white part is the amount of light it's giving off (not exactly). It is not traveling completely around the Earth, eventually reaching the underside. It is traveling entirely overhead, curving around to give the appearance of sunset when the sun passes far enough away to be out of sight
(you can try this experiment with someone holding a large coin, like this.
https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/dc138d7c-b976-40e1-9de1-ff762b46c6be.6134354d0148619c4e95bc5d0be297c2.jpeg
Ask them to travel around you, passing nearby you, while holding it above their head. When they are closest to you, it will appear above you, but when they are farther away, it appears in front or behind you. Eventually they pass out of sight (cursing your name for making them run for miles for this experiment) and the coin becomes so tiny you can't see it. Likewise, the sun arcs around us, becoming invisible as it passes out of range). The point being that for about half the year, the sun moves east to west overhead, staying in the northern hemisphere (red line) in the Tropic of Cancer. That area gets plenty of sun for the summer, and crops do great. It gradually shifts toward the Tropic of Capricorn (blue line) meaning the southern hemisphere gets great sun during their summer. Now, I may have got the finer points wrong, but the main idea is explained.

What else this means? There is no half of the moon like that picture. The moon is overhead, and the phases happen because is reflection of the sun or whatever.

You'll notice that no water is dripping off the flat Earth either. You see that lovely ice wall? Yeah, that's why. Meanwhile, water always flows to the lowest point.
https://preview.redd.it/wg0s85h1nzvy.jpg?auto=webp&s=77df38658bcb26541c83fd059ce9d589ce99b365

Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Wed 18 May, 2022 01:41 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


Quote:
Okay...so the scientists are wrong about the composition of our solar system...and the mechanics by which they say it runs. Instead, the Sun (of whatever size) revolves around our flat Earth.


No. If they were simply wrong about it, I could live with that.

Here's what I cannot live with. Especially if people are not simply wrong, but lying to us.

Quote:
NASA's $25.2 billion budget for fiscal year 2021 is about a 12% increase over FY 2020.


For each billion in dollars of government expenditure, taxes for working and middle class are higher (the rich typically know tax loopholes, which is why they are rich, so it is senseless to as the left claims to do "tax the rich" as instead the poor and average are hurt by this). Between this and the "Ukraine crisis," we are paying upwards of $60 billion. You realize that the entire state of Alaska was paid for indefinitely with only $7 million? Supposing inflation is about 1000 times (probly not, but let's go with that) back then, you could buy a nice stretch of land or keep a whole country fed and clothed on that.

Instead, we waste it on a country I don't care about, and on pictures that could very well be fake. Do you see yet why this matters to me? It's not just lies and waste, it's egregious lies and waste.

To answer your other question, if the sun is not the size depicted in this...
https://www.evidencetoconsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/sun-moon-ratio2.jpg
(Even as far away as it supposedly is, I'm asking the same question about a sun that size!)
...but the exact same size as the moon in that picture, then yes, the light of the sun would not cover the whole Earth, but rather be more like a lantern light, only giving off a radius of light.

Btw, fun fact. You know sparklers? Those firework things you wave around in July 4th? Well uhhh, they actually have 1000+ degrees of heat (as much as 1800°F to 3000°F)! The average stove gives off only about 550°F of heat at maximum, but you can burn a roast with the latter, and not even cook bread with the former.
So what's going on here? Simple, heat is subject to mass.
https://www.sparklersonline.com/sparkler-safety/how-hot-are-sparklers-the-science-behind-your-wedding-light-show/
The smaller the object, the less it hurts us with its heat (of course, heat is also subject to diffusion as part of the laws of thermodynamics, which is why you cannot heat a house without steady heat pumping in).
A big sun necessarily has to be far away, or we get nicely browned. A small sun on the other hand gives us a sparkler effect, warm but not unbearable.




None of this answers my question, Bulma...and I suspect you realize that.

Surely you have noticed that even with the Sun at its lowest point in the morning sky (just having risen...or even shortly before rising)...one can easily see that it is daytime. If that is the case, why is it not daytime EVERYWHERE on our flat planet?

I know that the Sun rises in the East...I know that "the East" for me extends thousands of miles, because I have actually traversed those thousands of miles myself.

So...thousands of miles away, the Sun peeks over the edge of our flat Earth...and I see that it is daytime. Everyone else on this flat Earth of ours has to be seeing the same thing...the Sun has come up over the edge of our flat planet. We are all seeing daytime...or we all should be seeing daytime.

But we don't.

So can you devise a configuration that CAN account for it?

Answer that, because it is important to the notion of a flat Earth...and I have gone out of my way to join you in accepting that situation.

Help me out here.

By the way...your response to Cobbler did not help on this issue AT ALL.
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 01:48 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
The earth has no seam, anywhere.

And as for the water all falling to the bottom, that is what would happen if the Earth had no core of gravity.

Do you find this amusing?

You are not only deluded but disingenuous, you lie, you knowingly mislead. Is this what your God meant when he said, "Speak the truth in love."?

Your mind has been corrupted by falsehood and your deviousness only shows there is little light within your soul.

Just remember when you waste people's time you are also wasting your own time, time that you could spend in truth and in dignity.

You know the earth is round and you toy with people because you can't think of a genuine way to get attention without flaming others.

Your God is unimaginative and dull.

Do you really want to be remembered for your shock factor and ignorance or for your love and authenticity?

Your motives are transparent and careless.

Get real...
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 02:01 pm
When you go east in an airplane you continue to go east. If you reverse direction you go west and continue to go west.

When you are in an airplane and you go south eventually you go north and then you go south again.

From any direction when you circle the globe you travel around its circumference unending. Never do you ever reach "the edge"...

Something finitely flat has an edge, a sphere has no edge. Like round clock the hands spin and spin with no end.

Please show me a photograph of the edge of the earth...

https://townsquare.media/site/295/files/2012/10/Kansas-Point-of-Know-Return.jpg?w=980&q=75

lol
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 03:05 pm
https://i0.wp.com/briantissot.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/11/IMG_0042.jpg

A 100 foot hill of water.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Wed 18 May, 2022 03:31 pm
@Frank Apisa,
:facepalm:
It's funny talking to you sometimes. Though still not as funny as Cobbler, as I suspect he's actually stupid.
It's a bit like speaking a different language.

Alright, so you see that lovely map that has two yellow balls above with all the fuzzy light zones?

So, (1) it takes roughly 12-15 hours for the sun to pass out of our sight. (2) This sun's light overlaps much of the world but not all at once, (3) it's actually quite easy for things to pass out of our sight; this is because despite tall tales about being able to see stars light years away (the explanation that makes alot more sense is that these aren't actually stars, and don't ask what they are, because you'll find the explanation very hilarious), our sight is actually pathetically limited. You see those grid squares on the map there? Our vision is actually more pathetic than that. On a good day, we can see a few hundred miles from a high mountain, maybe, and near water level it's closer to three miles (without any obstructions). Average it about 11 miles with no obstructions, and that's assuming there are any interesting objects. So maybe we can see into the stratosphere looking up, if there are no clouds. The sun moving away from our sight? Pretty easy actually. (4) If we are saying that the sun is roughly the same size as the moon, the moon's diameter is 2,159 mi. The thing is, this is only a quarter of the size of the Earth, and I actually suspect it is smaller and closer. (5) Earth is also 81 times the mass of the moon. Remember I talked about about the enormous heat of a sparkler making it relatively harmless despite being as hot as a blowtorch due to its small particles and low mass? Well, the sun is not only a quarter of the size of the Earth, but is effectively a low watt bulb. It's not going to cover the Earth with light, because it is relatively dim. A yellow sun is not much better than a red sun, except for maybe Superman. (6) That the sun rises in the east and sets in the west means that it orbits west to east. Let's go back to the picture.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/816868397836926996/976595073062035466/flatness.png

Okay, you see that white dot, and the circle around it? That's you and your pathetic field of vision. The sun casts a significant amount of light for a long period, but once it gets outside your territory, you literally cannot see it. Actually, what surprises me more is not the idea that the sun can flood the Earth with light, but that you can see it for as long as you can. I would say that sunlight only covers 4 grid squares in either direction. That should be less than half the circle, or less than twelve hours. Clearly this radius is bigger than I think, but nowhere near big enough to "cover the entire world." There's no reason why it should. The experiment I told you about earlier, of shining a lantern or flashlight on a map, it doesn't cover the whole space, just a circle radius.

Yeah, Cobbler is my next target...



TheCobbler
 
  2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 03:32 pm
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy

No 400 year old skeletons found yet...
0 Replies
 
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 03:40 pm
"How far away could we travel from the Sun and still be able to see it?"

- Question from 8th grader

Hello! I wanted to provide a little background before I post the answer. Actually, this answer is more of an approximation. The Sun is by far the sky's brightest night sky object because we are so close to it: between 91.5 - 94.5 million miles, depending on the time of year. All the other stars are much fainter because they are so far away. (Think about it this way: a light beam requires about 8.3 minutes to travel from the Sun to Earth. A light beam from Proxima Centauri, the closest star to the Sun, requires about 4.2 years to reach Earth. Proxima Centauri is about 262,000 times farther away from us than the Sun.)

If we were to travel away from the Sun, it would become fainter. At Pluto's distance, the Sun will still be many millions of times brighter than the night sky's brightest star, Sirius. At the distance of Proxima Centauri, the Sun would be about as bright as Procyon, the brightest star in Canis Minor and the 8th brightest star in our sky. The faintest stars that most people can see are about 185 times dimmer than Procyon. For the Sun to appear this faint to us, we would have to be about 58 light years away from it. Some people have keener eyesight than most of us and they can see fainter stars. However, if we were all in a space vessel that was 58 light years from the solar system, we could still just barely see the Sun. We'd likely need a highly detailed star chart to locate it.

https://usm.maine.edu/planet/how-far-away-could-we-travel-sun-and-still-be-able-see-it
TheCobbler
 
  2  
Wed 18 May, 2022 04:07 pm
Genesis 5:27 And all the days of Methuselah were nine hundred sixty and nine years: and he died.
0 Replies
 
 

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