7
   

What is Evangelism?

 
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2022 03:33 pm
@izzythepush,
I think the world of Nasrudin.

There were no laws in 2000 that covered internet threats. I even approached the Tx Att Gen, they thought it was wrong but that it was impossible to go after him. I found him eventually, he started posting on Seattlebuzz and I found where he lived in Iowa, who he was, who his parents were.
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2022 03:38 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
That is terrible.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2022 03:43 pm
@izzythepush,
I really went out after all the info out there on him.

His father has the airport in Misqueto. Iowa named after him, but for some reason he had an abnormal hatred of his Germanborn mother, never married and livd in an apartment over a bar in Misqueto
izzythepush
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2022 03:50 pm
@bobsal u1553115,
How can people get so obsessed with someone the other side of the country?

I've had similar problems with a sockpuppet on here.

He doesn't know who I am though. That makes it real.
bobsal u1553115
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2022 04:03 pm
@izzythepush,
Back in the day I never expected anything like that. But once NYT realized there was no way to monetize Abuzz, they stopped moderating.

There was a bobsal there and he was just the worst sort of petty meaness. Names were not locked when someone took one, so I took his name to "rehabilitate it".

There are/were people here that thought I was the "evil" bobsal, I joined here after he got banned from a2k.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2022 07:14 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

I downloaded and saved many of my Abuzz threads.


I did that also, Bobsal.

When I look them over (which I do from time to time) I am amazed that I was so much less confrontational back then. I still argued the same issues (mostly religion and some politics), but I did it with a bit more finesse back then.

I do tend to be more...abrupt...now.

And, as you can see from the thing you posted, I did proselytize for agnosticism more directly.

Albuquerque
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2022 09:09 am
@Frank Apisa,
You Frank since we met long time ago in these forums always sold me the idea that you are one coherent doubter all the time...you have been coherent on the selling for years and years and I complement you for your devotion...
I have studied in Psychology that people are many personalities not one...I wonder how many times a day you are agnostic of your own agnosticism lactu sensu, I'm not even referring to God on this one, just pointing disbelief on certainty of anything at all , for all the time, in one big monolithic persona that you created and believe it is your real you every hour...I think that is your hidden belief...
You see Frank who you are is a mystery, as who I am it is a mystery that I will never unravel no matter how devoted I might be at auto analysis. And so it is fair to conclude that more often then not I am agnostic of my own agnosticism in whatever topic I might be enquiry about...I fail to believe in doubt as much as I fail to believe in certainty...depends on the mood as with any other biological being...
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2022 10:16 am
@Albuquerque,
Albuquerque wrote:

You Frank since we met long time ago in these forums always sold me the idea that you are one coherent doubter all the time...you have been coherent on the selling for years and years and I complement you for your devotion...
I have studied in Psychology that people are many personalities not one...I wonder how many times a day you are agnostic of your own agnosticism lactu sensu, I'm not even referring to God on this one, just pointing disbelief on certainty of anything at all , for all the time, in one big monolithic persona that you created and believe it is your real you every hour...I think that is your hidden belief...
You see Frank who you are is a mystery, as who I am it is a mystery that I will never unravel no matter how devoted I might be at auto analysis. And so it is fair to conclude that more often then not I am agnostic of my own agnosticism in whatever topic I might be enquiry about...I fail to believe in doubt as much as I fail to believe in certainty...depends on the mood as with any other biological being...


Thank you, Albuquerque.

I have enjoyed our conversations over the many, many years.

My "agnosticism" does not carry over in full measure to questions outside of the issue, "Do any gods exist?"...and the issues that ensue directly from that question.

I understand that there are times I say, "I know...xyz" that I truly do not. I can be "agnostic" on almost ALL "I know..." statements, but I choose not to. I am willing to say, "I know the name on my birth certificate is "Frank."; I know I was born on August 9th, 1936; I know that Paris is the capital of France; I know I am typing on a keyboard at my desk in my den. But on an absolute scale, I do not KNOW anything...except for definitional things in the REALITY...whatever that it. (I certainly do not KNOW what the REALITY is.)

2 + 2 = 4 in base 10 in the REALITY (possibly illusional) in which I suppose I exist. You and I could not have a rational discussion if we do not concede these kinds of conventions...and my interaction with other beings (REAL or illusionary) seems important to me...even though I do not KNOW there are "other beings" nor that there is a single REALITY.

The discussions about "There is a GOD" or "There are no gods" (in this perhaps illusionary REALITY) about the REALITY, is the only area where I (sorta) insist on my agnosticism. For the record, I've pretty much given up classifying myself as an Agnostic (capital "A") and try always to use the small agnostic...and stay away from labels or descriptors.)
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2022 02:43 pm
@Frank Apisa,
As much as I'd love the gay get-together about old times in Abuzz (no, not really), it is probably best if we indeed get back to topic.

The study of "how do you know what you know?" is known as methodology. You will find, however, that most libraries no longer have a methodology section. They consider it a waste of time, as do atheists, which is why atheists like to make blanket statements about what they "know" about reality.

They have also largely abandoned philosophy at least according to their own claim, as per Hawking's "philosophy is dead" statement. Which is rather funny, actually, since he immediately launches into philosophy (rather than science) to defend most of the ideas in his books about science.

But let's move back a paragraph to methodology. It has survived, mainly by being merged by religious people into the field of epistemology. Methodology is more about the approaches you use to get to your knowledge, while epistemology is the study of knowledge itself. Yet, because epistemology largely originates in religion, some like Hawking, have taken the stance of ontological relativism, they idea that you can just be flaky and assert whatever the hell reality you want.

Consider this then:
1. I do NOT know for certain that I was born on July 20, 1982.
2. I do NOT know that my parents actually are my parents, or just adopted me.
(I do not know either of these things, because like most children, I did not witness my own birth, and I have childhood amnesia. Neither do you)
3. We actually do know two + two is four. We know this because of real world application. I gather two groups of two together, and I find I have four. But if we're either redefining the system as something other than the classically used base 10, or changing the definition of "four" then all bets are off.
4. You tell me that you know that you do not know whether or not there is a God. Which is fine, you are a flake, and I have proven that the first two statements you are wrongly certain about, and the third you are so willing to shift your original position that you mention bases other than the one that actually works. But if you are unsure whether or not you can believe in God, you certainly cannot make this statement for other people. After all, if you accept Hawking as anything other than a crippled hack who made a bunch of half-baked theories, then we must accept ontological relativism. If so, then in my reality space aliens exist and in yours there might be flying monkeys, and all study of reality is basically worthless because Leadfoot's is different from mine and so is yours and Annointed's.

Ergo... either Hawking is wrong, there is one reality, and you haven't figured it out yet. Or both of us are equally right, and you can't impose your agnosticism on me. This is like Pascal's Wager. In either case, you kinda sorta lose.
TheCobbler
 
  4  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2022 03:13 pm
@bulmabriefs144,
You're really one bulmabriefs144 to assume you can tell people how to know.

You are braindead from your right wing fake news and your God delusion is pathetic and abysmal.

You presume to know what you don't and that makes your sincerity nothing more than a lie.

How was that Frank? lol 😁
Frank Apisa
 
  3  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2022 07:34 am
@TheCobbler,
TheCobbler wrote:

You're really one bulmabriefs144 to assume you can tell people how to know.

You are braindead from your right wing fake news and your God delusion is pathetic and abysmal.

You presume to know what you don't and that makes your sincerity nothing more than a lie.

How was that Frank? lol 😁


Not bad.

The guy is nuts. Only he can do anything about that.

Not sure why he wants to insist he KNOWS something he obviously does not...but I suspect he is so terrified of his god, he just cannot acknowledge that he does not know it exists.
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2022 07:51 am
@Frank Apisa,
Frank Apisa wrote:

TheCobbler wrote:

I downloaded and saved many of my Abuzz threads.


I did that also, Bobsal.

When I look them over (which I do from time to time) I am amazed that I was so much less confrontational back then. I still argued the same issues (mostly religion and some politics), but I did it with a bit more finesse back then.

I do tend to be more...abrupt...now.

And, as you can see from the thing you posted, I did proselytize for agnosticism more directly.


0 Replies
 
bobsal u1553115
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2022 08:01 am
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
I still argued the same issues (mostly religion and some politics)


You and I had many "discussions" on the nature of gawd and the knowing of him.

I'm still convicted
And your door is still open.
We are still standing.
0 Replies
 
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2022 08:34 am
@TheCobbler,
You're sssuming things.

So actually, you're telling other people what you think they think. This is precisely the sort of crap I'm objecting to.

You got the term "God delusion" from a book title. By Dawkins I believe. But neither Dawkins nor anyone else is qualified to disprove God. Why not? Because... you would need God-level omniscience to know that in all times, in all dimensions, no such being as God existed. It is far greater of a delusion to say that you know this. Basically saying that you're God and thus can make such a rejection.
Secondly, you don't seem to understand what a delusion even is. Neither does Dawkins apparently. So let's get a definition here.
Quote:
A delusion is a false fixed belief that is not amenable to change in light of conflicting evidence. As a pathology, it is distinct from a belief based on false or incomplete information, confabulation, dogma, illusion, hallucination, or some other misleading effects of perception, as individuals with those beliefs are able to change or readjust their beliefs upon reviewing the evidence.

Religions have dogmas. But I could walk into a Catholic church tomorrow, stack up all their icons of Mary, and show them this in comparison to Jesus, and impress upon them that they are actually worshipping Mary not Jesus. They might be stubborn about it. I might have to burn their idols. Or start a second Protestant Reformation, and nail a thesis to the door. But some would decide their ideas are wrong. This is not a delusion, even among those who won't change their minds.

Contrast this with a delusion that I am an emu. I can clearly see that I have no feathers, human feet, and no beak. Yet I persist.
The Bible literally calls atheism a great delusion, and you know, it is right. The godless who do not believe in a Creator are shown an entire created world, which also has a number of manifested miracles ( "coincidence" they call them), yet decides to notice none of this. Yeah, there are things seriously messed up with your head. I do have some interesting beliefs, but I can adjust them, and have over the years.

I don't listen to fake news. I do my own research. You do. You clearly tune in every night to latest cases of COVID or to fawn over some leader. But it cannot be that you're simply listening to news, because at this point, even CNN has become critical of Biden. More precisely, you've found yourself teachers to satisfy your itching ears.

Nor am I right wing. I happen to have voted right wing the last time I voted, but actually I don't believe in the process of government. The Jews asked for a king, and more often than not, they wound up with men who got more evil as time went on. So calling me right wing is proof you don't understand the first thing about me. I am far closer to anarchist than right wing.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2022 08:52 am
@Frank Apisa,
It's easy to ride on a bandwagon.

It's not quite as easy to say something unpopular in a crowd where you only have a few allies.

It's still harder, when such crowd is psychologically broken and cannot learn. You have been saying the same **** over and over, now you've taken to bully me because I have enough sense to know that what you say is nonsense.

We do have definitive proof of God. The material world, despite probly being evil, shows us all we need of God. Or do you think that you know enough about nature as a "scientist" that you can put this together?
https://www.wallpapers13.com/wallpaper-wiki-cool-nature-backgrounds-for-desktop-2048x1174-pic-wpd0010113/
For all the notions of scientific awareness, and having it all figured out, scientists cannot make even one blade of grass. They can only make dead things, and copy stuff. A scientist could mix together sperm and eggs in a lab. So could two scientists in the lab closet, and have more fun doing it. But on their own, a scientist can't make the smallest bacteria live.

You think I'm crazy, but you're the one who tells people they don't know, in spite of very clear evidence.
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2022 09:07 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


It's easy to ride on a bandwagon.

It's not quite as easy to say something unpopular in a crowd where you only have a few allies.

It's still harder, when such crowd is psychologically broken and cannot learn. You have been saying the same **** over and over, now you've taken to bully me because I have enough sense to know that what you say is nonsense.

We do have definitive proof of God. The material world, despite probly being evil, shows us all we need of God. Or do you think that you know enough about nature as a "scientist" that you can put this together?
https://www.wallpapers13.com/wallpaper-wiki-cool-nature-backgrounds-for-desktop-2048x1174-pic-wpd0010113/
For all the notions of scientific awareness, and having it all figured out, scientists cannot make even one blade of grass. They can only make dead things, and copy stuff. A scientist could mix together sperm and eggs in a lab. So could two scientists in the lab closet, and have more fun doing it. But on their own, a scientist can't make the smallest bacteria live.

You think I'm crazy, but you're the one who tells people they don't know, in spite of very clear evidence.



You are nuts, Bulma. And I suspect you KNOW that to be true. Your words indicate to me that even you have questions about your mental health.

Go get help!
bulmabriefs144
 
  -2  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2022 11:11 am
@Frank Apisa,
Oh I definitely am nuts.

But you seem to not understand that it has nothing to do with my belief in God, or that you are far more nuts than me. So I will have to educate you until you get it.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/18/23/e2/1823e2de2816ae0b4792107e5e03e0f8.jpg

I think I prefer my insanity though. Better that than to not know, not pick a side, and declare other people crazy for not doing likewise. The first two are fine. The third is telling me you know better than these two sides. If humanity is crazy enough for these extremes, there's no way you can do any better.

I respect agnostics that have enough self-awareness to respect me.
Leadfoot
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2022 11:18 am
Frank said to bulma:
Quote:
Your words indicate to me that even you have questions about your mental health.

Don’t know bulma's full story, but Frank's insinuation should not trouble anyone.

'For in the last days things will get so bugshit crazy that if it were possible, even the elect would succumb to the deception filling the world.'

(Paraphrased and I forget the chapter and verse.)
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  2  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2022 11:44 am
@bulmabriefs144,
bulmabriefs144 wrote:


Oh I definitely am nuts.

But you seem to not understand that it has nothing to do with my belief in God, or that you are far more nuts than me. So I will have to educate you until you get it.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/18/23/e2/1823e2de2816ae0b4792107e5e03e0f8.jpg

I think I prefer my insanity though. Better that than to not know, not pick a side, and declare other people crazy for not doing likewise. The first two are fine. The third is telling me you know better than these two sides. If humanity is crazy enough for these extremes, there's no way you can do any better.

I respect agnostics that have enough self-awareness to respect me.



This forum presents itself to the public as one where a person can come to get reasonable advice.

The most often given piece of advice given is: See a professional for help.

YOU, Bulma, are nuts.

My advice...is that you seek help. That should be the advice you are getting from most people here.
bulmabriefs144
 
  -1  
Reply Mon 17 Jan, 2022 01:04 pm
@Frank Apisa,
Quote:
This forum presents itself to the public as one where a person can come to get reasonable advice.


If you honestly believe we are asking experts, you are far crazier than I.

Secondly, not only can I not afford to sit and navel-gaze to an "expert" (only the most narcissistic think that their problems are bad enough to blow through $80 to $300 per session, especially when friends are a far cheaper solution), but I might ask by what measure you think I am especially crazy.

What I am, is especially honest about my problems. You sir, will be in a nursing home in just a few years, screaming "That bulmabriesf144 is crazy! Crazy I tell you!" and they'll be like "Yeah okay, grandpa, whoever this bulmabriefs144 is, they're not a harm to anyone. You've tried to bite me earlier today." Up until that point, you will be pretending to be normal. When I go senile, I'll probably not be noticeably different.
 

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