What is Evangelism?

The point is Christians want to debate, Atheists and Muslims want to stifle debate. That is why we can't discuss Christianity in Muslim nations and we cannot discuss intelligent design as a logical Scientific explanation in public schools and colleges In the USA.

I am not sure where you have been but, the greatest atheists and agnostic people of science have debated christian clergy already at some of the finest universities (many religious) in the world and afterwards votes were taken of the opinions of the participants... Guess who lost those debates?

You can view them on Youtube. To tell you the truth, I have never seen a debate where the participants voted and the clergy won.

Every time a person steps into a hospital for treatment of even the least life threatening disease, Christianity and most other "faiths" lose the debate.

'Religious left' emerging as U.S. political force in Trump era
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-trump-religion/religious-left-emerging-as-u-s-political-force-in-trump-era-idUSKBN16Y114

Someone on Facebook just posted this:

"When I was a kid, I sang: “They will know we are Christians by our love, by our love”* every Sunday at Holy Cross Church. We had one Jesuit hippy priest after another in Lynchburg, VA, probably as a clear answer to the intolerance coming from Jerry Falwell across town.

Today the world knows fundamentalists and evangelicals by their hate."


So true, the republicans and their greedy politics have embraced this hate and given it names like racism, austerity and "Trump" that they wear with a false sense of pride...

I have never seen an atheist win. I can guarantee there were debates where the audience thought the intelligent design believer won. I can't understand why you use the phrase to tell the truth. Without a designer to decide what the truth is there is no such thing as truth only opinion polls.

That tells us more about you than any debates. You're convinced you're right so the only way any party can 'win' in your eyes is to confirm your own beliefs.




This is nonsense, it may be what you believe but it's got nothing to do with actual truth.

The person who invented the word gets to define its true meaning.

More nonsense. Words aren't invented, they're coined, used. You believe your god 'invented' the word truth. That's your belief, but that's all it is.

Truth derives from an old English/Anglo Saxon word trīewth or trēowth. At the time the Anglo Saxons were Pagan, so if you want to credit some divinity you need to look to Wotan.

Truth existed before the word truth.

Then why were you talking about the word earlier? You can't have it both ways.

The truth is you're not interested in debate, in order to talk to you one has to accept your definitions. That's not debate, that's acquiescence. I'm not going to waste my time on a fanatic who is only interested in proselytising.

I meant the word truth existed spiritually before it existed in the physical world. The physical world reveals the difference between truth and falsehood. The person who decides the definition of true and false is the person that established the physical world which reveals it

Whether or not a concept existed before anyone could conceive of it is something the philosophers can argue about until doomsday.

You are incapable of viewing things outside of your own ideological sphere, your definition of truth, and it is yours, is dependent on believing it was defined by a creator in the first place. You can't conceive of how anyone else could come to a different conclusion so anyone who tries to talk about this with you ends up going round in circles.

The Bible says even the stones have truth, so that must also include people.

and cobblerif God (the idea) through Jesus (the living word) think of an idea, and they don't have a beginning because they started the clock when they created matter, then there would be no time that existed without God to conceive and share it with himself.I was an atheist, then I became a theist, then a Christian, and then a Roman Catholic. I was an atheist until I came to understand that all the information required to produce the history I observed in our universe, either required an author or a miraculous chain of events. After much research I found an author was much more compatible with the evidence than a miraculous chain of events to explain all the information I observe in the history of our complex universe. (frankly, I do not believe in miracles, just the manipulation of matter by intelligence)

Your own spiritual journey is of no interest to me at all. You're hardly unique or particularly gifted. You can believe what you want, but don't expect anyone else to sit up and take notice.

I am a bit unlike Izzy but only to a small degree.

I do not find people and their religious/spiritual journeys to be irrelevant.

Though I do draw a distinction between the two. I find religion to generally lead to isolation, legalism and irrational judgment of others.

While, I find spiritual journeys to lead to an all inclusive oneness (or zeroness) with others.

Spirituality makes one open, while religious journeys closes people to reality and reason.

Though this may seem like black and white reasoning, I am offering this simply to illuminate the means and extremes of one's journey to enlightenment.

I was once a fundamentalist Christian and I was miserable. I hated mainly myself and just about everything else.

I found peace in letting go of religion. Not to the point of being an atheist but an agnostic. In this agnostic state, all of my inner fears vanished and I am now a very happy and loving person.

You could say I have reached a level of Nirvana. I can focus on loving the world and "progress" while avoiding the inner religious turmoil and judgement.

I would say the very best thing that has ever happened in my life was leaving religion behind and becoming semi-spiritual.

I can focus on the positives in life without all the heavy baggage of self condemnation and wrath towards others.

What I once thought was ultimate truth, today, to me is just another book full of words... some really good words (holy) and some horribly cruel and barbaric (evil)...

I take what seems reasonable from it and the rest goes straight into the trash without the least bit of hesitation.

It is not the word of God to me... They are mere words just like any other book and this understanding has freed me from (what I believe is) the most insidious trickery ever unleashed upon humanity...

I am free to do the same with any religion, take the best and can the rest.

I spent over 30 years chained and imprisoned behind the bars of religion and I will never return to such folly.

It was not easy, at first, breaking out of that prison, but my life has been enriched and I can truly say I am FREE to be what and who I am.

I don't go every day with the feeling like my insides are being ripped apart...

I never have that feeling anymore. I can focus on loving myself and others and spirituality and sobriety are merely bonuses.

Becoming freed from something bad is sometimes the only way to appreciate something good.

Religion was bad... It took years and loving people (many here on A2K) to help me understand that.

Now, looking back, I can see how narrow my views were and I can only be thankful I have had a chance to live my life with this new liberty and diversity of thought...

I have tried other religions and nothing beats simply being a free thinker.

Can God exist? I don't know, Does God exist? I don't know...

Does God fully exist in any holy book? NO... Of that I am certain.

We see parts and glimmers of God (truth, the word) everywhere, even in the stones...

I was just saying that I am capable of viewing the world through an atheistic point of view.

My point remains, you will only 'debate' with those who accept your definitions and parameters. That's not debate.

I never said they were irrelevant, but they're not proof of any great understanding or insight.

I once had a Jehovah's Witness talk about how she used to be a Roman Catholic as if that proved her right.

Almost everyone has had their own spiritual journey, and they've all ended up somewhere different.

Izzy wrote:
"Your own spiritual journey is of no interest to me at all."

Comment:
Ummm, no interest to me at all = irrelevant.

Just sayin'...

If they had interest to you, they would be relevant.

Once again Izzy you split hairs over the most "irrelevant" things.

Argument for argument sake gets tiring after a while.