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God hater loses in court.

 
 
Baldimo
 
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 09:02 pm
WASHINGTON ?- A federal judge on Friday rejected a challenge brought by atheist Michael Newdow (search) to stop the invocation prayer at President Bush's second inauguration.

On Thursday, Newdow told U.S. District Judge John Bates that having a minister invoke God in the Jan. 20 ceremony would violate the Constitution by forcing him to accept unwanted religious beliefs.

But one day later, Bates ruled that Newdow wouldn't get far in his legal challenge and noted the absence of a "clearly established violation of the Establishment Clause."

Click here to read the Memorandum Opinion in Newdow v. Bush (FindLaw pdf).

"Moreover," the judge said in the ruling, "the balance of harms here, and particularly the public interest, does not weigh strongly in favor of the injunctive relief Newdow requests, which would require the unprecedented step of an injunction against the president."

The government had asked the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia (search) to dismiss the current lawsuit, saying the invocation had been widely accepted for more than 200 years old.

The court on Friday said it doesn't have the power to order the president not to speak at his own inauguration and the act of ordering the president not to permit an invocation and benediction ?- which Newdow sought ?- would be one and the same.

Newdow argued he would be harmed as someone attending the inauguration by being forced to listen to sectarian and specifically, Christian, prayer. The court said that harm is simply too small to warrant its involvement in the matter. Also, the court said Newdow really doesn't have the legal standing to make this request since he sued over inauguration prayers in 2001 and lost that case in two federal courts.

Appearing on FOX News' "Hannity & Colmes" late Friday, Newdow continued to trumpet his cause. He said that reciting prayers at the inauguration violates the rights of atheists because it undermines equality.

"How can you say it's equal to say to some people that they have to listen to other people espouse religious dogma in the name of the government?" he said.

After his first inaugural legal attempt, Newdow became famous in 2002 for his unsuccessful attempt to remove the phrase "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance.

Two ministers delivered Christian invocations at Bush's inaugural ceremony in 2001, and plans call for a minister to do the same before Bush takes the oath of office again next week.

In court this week, Newdow argued that the prayers violate the constitutional ban on the establishment of religion.

"I am going to be standing there having this imposed on me," Newdow told the court by phone on Thursday. "They will be telling me I'm an outsider at that particular moment."

Newdow also argued that taxpayer-financed inaugural ceremonies cannot be a platform for "the coercive imposition of religious dogma," adding that the president intended to "use the machinery of the state to advocate his religious beliefs."

Bates questioned both sides vigorously at Thursday's two-hour hearing, but said he doubted a court could order the president not to include a prayer when he takes the oath of office.

"Is it really in the public interest for the federal courts to step in and enjoin prayer at the president's inauguration?" Bates asked.

Bates also questioned whether the lawsuit should be thrown out because the San Francisco-based 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (search) ruled last year that Newdow did not suffer "a sufficiently concrete and specific injury" when he opposed prayers from being recited at Bush's first inauguration.

Newdow said his case is different this time because he actually has a ticket to attend the inauguration. He said being there live is different than four years ago, when he planned to watch the ceremony on television.

Justice Department lawyer Edward White scoffed at that claim, saying the issues in the two cases are the same and that Newdow still has not shown how he would be injured by hearing the prayer.

In an interview published in Wednesday's Washington Times, Bush, who converted from Episcopalianism to Methodism and prays daily, tried to dispel perceptions that he is advocating his beliefs or imposing them on anyone.

"I think people attack me because they are fearful that I will then say that you're not equally as patriotic if you're not a religious person. I've never said that. I've never acted like that," he said.

Inaugural references to God date back to George Washington's inauguration in 1789. Christian prayers within the ceremony began with Franklin Delano Roosevelt's second inauguration in 1937.

Government attorneys defending the continued use of prayer said in court papers that "there is no reason to reverse course and abandon a widely accepted, noncontroversial aspect of the inaugural ceremony."

In court Thursday, they added that Supreme Court precedent allows state legislatures and Congress to open each workday with prayer.

Newdow countered that legislative sessions are quite different from taxpayer-financed public ceremonies.

A large part of next week's inaugural ceremonies is being paid for with private donations, though the federal government is picking up the tab for construction of the viewing stands and security.

In 2002, the 9th Circuit ruled in Newdow's favor concerning the "under God" phrase in the Pledge of Allegiance. It agreed that the phrase, added to the Pledge in 1954, was an unconstitutional blending of church and state.

In June 2004, however, the U.S. Supreme Court overturned the decision on a technicality, essentially sidestepping the core issue.

It said Newdow could not lawfully sue on behalf of his elementary school-aged daughter because he did not have custody of the girl and because the girl's mother objected to the suit.

Newdow re-filed the Pledge suit in Sacramento federal court earlier this month, naming eight other plaintiffs who are custodial parents or the children themselves.

FOX News' Major Garrett and The Associated Press contributed to this report.


Source
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Will this guy ever quit? He has lost again on his God hating mission to get rid of God. I hope he stops trying; he is starting to look like a whiner.
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Type: Discussion • Score: 0 • Views: 5,642 • Replies: 100
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jespah
 
  2  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 09:17 pm
Actually, the phrase "under God" wasn't even originally in the pledge, so why not restore the pledge to the way it was originally written? I hardly think that my suggesting that would make me a God-hater, now, would it? Smile
0 Replies
 
Magus
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 10:02 pm
I do hear whining (incessant), coming from those anxious to present themselves as "Loyal Christians"... from that minority who eagerly make a Public Statement (spectacle) of their conformity and "piety".
Of course, these Grandstanders are isually ignorant of the Biblical admonitions against oath-taking:
"But I say unto you, swear not at all..." (Matthew 5:34)
"Swear not, neither by Heaven nor by Earth, neither by any other oath". (James 5:12)

Not ALL Christian sects agree re: oath-taking... but it seems as if the most militant sects swear by it... :wink:
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 10:42 pm
Does oath taking apply to the office of president? I wouldn't think that it did.

Why is this going to be about Bush and not Newdow? He's the one causing an issue.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 10:45 pm
You can't hate what does not exist without being mental some way.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 11:02 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
You can't hate what does not exist without being mental some way.


In his view, if God doesn't exist then he should live his life that way, not disrupt what others want to do. If you chose to be Godless then that is your concern not anyone elses. If he become president then he can chose not to have a prayer. It is Bushs party and he can do so if he wishs.

Would you object to a Muslim having a cleric recite a prayer at their swearing in party?
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 15 Jan, 2005 11:04 pm
We the godless choose to not have the nonexistent God crammed down our throats at every outing. No hate, just demand for personal rights.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 08:04 am
When the godless become the majority, the rules can be changed. 'till then, we'll just have to deal with it. No one is forcing Nedow to attend the inaugeration. He is free to stay home and avoid being exposed to a prayer.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 08:24 am
We live in a representative state that is supposed to protect every citizen from a tyrany of the majority. While it doesn't always happen, we will push to get our civil rights at every venue.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 08:25 am
A tyrany of the minority is no better.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 08:35 am
Absense of tyrany by the majority is not by fiat tyrany by anyone. I don't intend to pursue such a stupid argument any further.
0 Replies
 
McGentrix
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 08:39 am
edgarblythe wrote:
I don't intend to pursue such a stupid argument any further.


Good, I am glad to see you have come to your senses.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 09:00 am
edgarblythe wrote:
We live in a representative state that is supposed to protect every citizen from a tyrany of the majority. While it doesn't always happen, we will push to get our civil rights at every venue.




We ain't gonna win this one, Edgar. But I, for one, appreciate the fact that you keep fighting the good fight.

I guess we have to be satisfied with giving our arguments in opposition...and then resign ourselves to letting 'em suck up to their silly god. They are frightened of the god (the god is rather barbaric, remember) ...and are trying to dodge its considerable wrath.

And in their defense...if I thought for a moment the god they suppose exists...actually existed....I'd probably be kissing its ass at every possible opportunity also.
0 Replies
 
graffiti
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 09:05 am
edgarblythe wrote:
Absense of tyrany by the majority is not by fiat tyrany by anyone.


Precisely. Idea
0 Replies
 
panzade
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 09:17 am
Baldimo: The title of your thread is misleading...but I'm sure you know that. Read this letter from Michael, and I'm sure you'll amend that title.

A letter from Rev. Dr. Newdow
Hi, I'm Mike Newdow, the Plaintiff in a lawsuit to remove the words "under God" from the Pledge of Allegiance. Because many people have asked me why I'm doing this, and many have made it clear that they think I shouldn't, I'm writing this brief note to explain.

The First Amendment states "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion." As I understand it, this resulted from the Framers' awareness of the persecution and animosity that inevitably accompanies state religions. With this in mind, they made the decision to ensure religious freedom by keeping the government out of that sensitive area. Personally, I think this was a good idea. And even if I didn't, it's one of the fundamental rules of our society. Thus, when I see our Pledge of Allegiance containing the words "under God," I see a gross violation of one of our foremost Constitutional mandates.

Many people have suggested that this violation is nothing to worry about, and that I shouldn't be "wasting my time" on such an endeavor. Those who make this suggestion are virtually all believers in God, who apparently are blind to the injuries the current Pledge causes. When I ask if they would hold the same opinion if the Pledge said "one Nation under white people," they immediately say no. And why not? Granted, the analogy isn't perfect: since "under God" pertains to a religious belief and "white people" reflects an immutable genetic characteristic. But, constitutionally, there is no difference: the resultant harm is that a minority population is made to feel like "outsiders" in both situations. So why is it okay to do this to atheists and not to African-Americans?

It's worse than that. Not only is this the Pledge of Allegiance, but it is a pledge that is recited in public schools throughout the land. Thus, the government indoctrinates every schoolchild - every school day of the year - with a belief in God, and a belief that our Nation, as an entity, is one "under God." What of those parents who choose not to inculcate their children with such a belief? Where is the religious freedom so precious to our democratic ideals? What is the difference between "one Nation under God" and "one Nation under Jesus"? And what would we all be saying if we heard that Russia had their children recite "one Nation under no god" every day?

"One Nation under God" in our Pledge of Allegiance is infuriating to me - as much as "one Nation under white people," "one Nation under Jesus," or "one Nation under no god" would be. We are a nation of laws - to be applied equally for every citizen. That a religious belief - the one category of belief that is specifically forbidden by the Constitution - has been inserted by the government into the Nation's Pledge is offensive, unconscionable, unconstitutional and wrong. Since no one else has righted that wrong, I'm doing it. To end the offense. To strengthen the Constitution.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 09:30 am
These guys know there is no "hatred of god" in the equation, they just want to hawk stupid arguments to push peoples' buttons.
0 Replies
 
blueveinedthrobber
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 09:49 am
Baldimo, who posted that we should give tsunami victims nothing in aid unless we got a "back scratch" for it in return.....now proudly starts a thread about how someone Godless gets what he deserves. I feel certain Heaven is overrun with angels and a host of the Saints rejoicing in Baldimo's name and preparing a double wide for him on the South Side.
0 Replies
 
Baldimo
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 04:39 pm
Bi-Polar Bear wrote:
Baldimo, who posted that we should give tsunami victims nothing in aid unless we got a "back scratch" for it in return.....now proudly starts a thread about how someone Godless gets what he deserves. I feel certain Heaven is overrun with angels and a host of the Saints rejoicing in Baldimo's name and preparing a double wide for him on the South Side.


I never said only for a "back scratch", I said we shouldn't offer money unless they request it. I'm not that cold hearted.

Wow if I'm not mistaken you just called me a redneck, quite mature of you.
0 Replies
 
snood
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 04:42 pm
edgarblythe wrote:
We the godless choose to not have the nonexistent God crammed down our throats at every outing. No hate, just demand for personal rights.


...and I'm sure you'll be raptly engaged in watching the ceremony, and getting your throat crammed with God, right? No, probably not. But even with 100 other channels or activities to choose from at that moment, you choose to characterize it as if you're being held in shackles in some dungeon. Get a grip.
0 Replies
 
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sun 16 Jan, 2005 04:46 pm
Snood, you're getting tiresome. It's a greater issue than the one event and you know it.
0 Replies
 
 

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