Calling all Conservatives...

Re: Calling all Conservatives...


Not in any particular order...

Douglas MacArthur. MacArthur invented the island-hopping strategy in the Pacific in WW-II without which we might still be fighting WW-II. He noted that the weapons of modern war were sufficiently terrible that only an inferior commander would any longer involve his troops in straight up battles other than as a last resort. That sort of thinking at the time had to be like Jesus heaving the money changers out the temple, i.e. it ran absolutely counter to everything which had ever gone before.

Billy Mitchell, who forced the American military to deal with airpower at a time when it didn't want to be bothered.

Dwight Eisenhower, who chose to fight the cold war with covert ops and (the threat of) nuclear weapons which were cheap, as opposed to the expensive alternative which was restarting anything resembling WW-II on a 3000-mile front in Europe. That's on top of winning WW-II.

Joseph McCarthy, who singlehandedly made it unrespectable to be a communist in America. Demonized by the left for personally overseeing the defeat of a baker's dozen democrat senators, McCarthy may have been more of a liberal by today's standards than the democrats who hounded him to death at the time. There was at least one openly gay member of McCarthy's staff for instance, and McCarthy didn't really give a damn about it.

Paul (Bear) Bryant. Just once in all the time I've spent watching athletics have I ever seen a situation in which an amateur version of a sport outgrew the pro version, and this was the Alabama version of the wishbone which Bryant developed as his final act in coaching. This included a passing game geared to the tempo of the wishbone and defenses were not able to handle both parts of it. Lining up with nine or ten men on the line of scrimmage the way the Florida teams used to do against the Okies simply put three giifted receivers out against man coverage and was basically an automatic seven points. Had there been a college all-star game at the time and Bryant allowed to coach the all-stars, the NFL could easily have been seriously embarassed.

Teddy Roosevent, who to some extent invented the modern American state. His taking on Morgan and the monopolies of the day was unprecedented and many view him as having built the prerequisites of the middle class society which flowered during the 50s and 60s.

Henry Ford, whose idea of paying workers a meaningful wage was unprecedented and against all previous thinking.

Yes, Henry Ford. Thanks gunga. We all owe him a round of applause.

You into bowhunting??

thanks guys...

Actually, I don't bowhunt because I don't have a way to practice, but I certainly support archery in general. I don't get the link to Ford, if there is one, but I do know about Kingsford charcoal. Please explain.

Re: Calling all Conservatives...


As much as I respect your opinions Gungasnake, I have to disagree with you STRONGLY on this one. IMO The 'American Caesar' was one of the worse examples of an American, to be more accurate, the worst example of an American Officer.

The most important thing that every American military officer has to remember is:
The United States Military is subserviant to the Civilian Authorities at all time.

Mac forgot this and paid the price for his arrogance...
This takes nothing away from his accomplishments, but it definitely tarnishes his position as a 'Great American'

I'm the proud owner of a signed copy of "Reminiscences", Gen. McArthur's memoirs (book actually signed to my late uncle, but now mine) in which the general strongly denies any refusal to follow orders.

Fedral - what I know of the record backs him up; I'm almost certain this allegation was a trumped-up charge by the despicable Truman and assorted lefties. Gen. Marshall who certainly had access to all the orders and documents had his doubts about the accuracy of such a charge.

Forgive a "liberal" for posting in this thread, but what actions make Truman despicable? Not at all the impression I have of the man.

Stupid illiterate liberals.
You're only allowed to observe...didn't you read the rules.

Drew Dad is neither illiterate - he did apologize for posting on the wrong thread - nor, to my knowledge, stupid.

As to DD's question: if it's true that McArthur never disobeyed direct orders, and Truman pretended that to be the case in order to remove him from command, that in and of itself strikes me as at the very least despicable.

Douglas MacArthur was a brilliant general and leader. However, his ability at self-promotion was even greater. The "island hopping" campaign in the Pacific for which he so eagerly took so much credit, was in fact the creation of Chester Nimitz and the Pacific Fleet. After the Marinas campaign in which the Navy & Marines retook Guam, Tinian, and Saipan, the Japanese no longer had the ability to mount a serious challenge to our naval forces, and we had bases from which our bombers could strike Japan. . The next stop was to be Okinawa until MacArthur insisted we first retake the Philippines just to fulfill his promise.

There is little doubt MacArthur opposed Truman's policies in 1949, and, whether or not he directly disobeyed an order, he was engaged in active politicking with Republican members of the Congress over his opposition to the President's policies. This was the final straw and the direct cause of his dismissal. One can make a case for or against both parties in this dispute, but there is little doubt that Truman had no practical choice but to dismiss his insubordinate general.

I haven't studied the Pacific war in detail, but I was under the impression that the "I shall return" comment was misdirection.

I think Candidone1's post was tongue-in-cheek.


OK...

Do you feel that Truman is despicable? That this one (contested) action makes him so? Or are there more reasons?

Note: I don't dispute your right to feel however you wish about Truman; I just thought there might be something about the man of which I am unaware.

...and heavily so.
Thanks for pickin' up what I was layin' down DrewDad! :wink:

Assuming you count libertarians as conservatives, which I'm not sure you do -- here are the iconic Americans who made me want to cross the Atlantic Ocean.

Science and Technology: Richard Feynman, Linus Pauling, Linus Thorvalds Albert Einstein, Werner von Braun, Steven Pinker, Oliver Sacks.

Economists and moral Philosophers: Milton and David Friedman, George Stigler, Gary Becker, Paul Krugman, Robert Notzik

Activists: Linus Pauling, Eric Raymond, Martin Luther King.

Fiction Writers: Robert Heinlein, John Steinbeck, Jack London, Mark Twain

Musicians: Rudolf Serkin, Vladimir Horowitz, Woody Guthrie, Bob Dylan, Chuck Berry, Eminem.

Politcians: James Madison, William Jefferson, George Washington.

Journalists: Jim Lehrer as an icon of PBS, Arthur O. Sulzberger for the NYT, William Buckley for The National Review.

Without knowing where blatham is going with this, I'll add Tom Threepersons and Elfego Baca. Like York, they were as ordinary as possible in their circumstances.

For writers of fiction, I endorse Thomas' list of authors.

You know, I should have included Truman.
He was a uniquely iconic American.
He was more American than apple pie.
A Southern good old boy party hack who was part and parcel of the Democratic machine. A down to earth, easy going, stiff, well mannered, plain speaking man. A honest, hard working, thrifty, intelligent, good hearted fellow. A man who was willing to stand in the shadows for the good of the nation. A man who was willing to lead and force his opponents to go his way for the good of the nation.
"Do I contradict myself?
Very well then I contradict myself,"
(He was large, He contained multitudes.)
I love Harry. He was indeed the quintessential American.

Nicely written, Moishe

Thomas,

Interesting to see my acquaintance, Gary Becker on your list, but please stop it with this Krugman stuff.

I like most of your list (especially Chuck Berry), but why not substitute George Gershwin for Eminem? As for Bob Dylan - there is much less to him than meets the eye (or ear, for that matter).

I've enjoyed a lot of these responses. I've really admired several of the choices given. But...iconic.

It's almost like when someone asks about a definable American culture. There's not one--because there are so many cultures operating next to one another. To pick one face, one personality, one story and say--This represents Americans... It sells America short. I don't think there can be an icon.

(Thinking about some deep man's casual voice, with faint Brooklynese saying, "There are a million stories in the naked city...")

If I HAD to pick one, it would be Oprah Winfrey.

She's not high brow--neither are most of us. She came from nothing and worked hard to achieve what she has. Been dirt poor, one of the working poor, middle class, upper class, affluent, stratospherical... The American Dream aspect. She interacts with the US public like no one else, and gravitates to the general public interests. She gives a lot of what she's earned to several humanitarian concerns. She's straightforward. She dabbles in self-improvement. She's open and friendly. Imperfect. Buys her own press sometimes. A formidable ally and adversary.

And overweight.

I don't like or dislike her. She's not an icon to me--but I thought she fit the question.

Tom Joad was a close second.