18
   

"Bill Clinton should have resigned"

 
 
revelette1
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2017 02:25 pm
If people think Clinton should have resigned over sexual assault accusations, should not Trump as well?

oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2017 02:42 pm
@revelette1,
revelette1 wrote:
If people think Clinton should have resigned over sexual assault accusations, should not Trump as well?

I for one would not want a resignation in either case unless the charges were proved.

If Clinton had been forced to resign over proven charges, I would indeed agree that Trump should resign over proven charges.

However, the fact that Clinton was allowed to stay in office despite proven charges means now that Trump should also be allowed to stay in office if real charges are ever proved.

But we're getting ahead of ourselves a bit. Imaginary crimes do not count. Trump has not committed any wrongdoing, so there is no reason to remove Trump regardless of Bill Clinton.

The Clinton example though is a perfect reason to embrace and welcome Roy Moore to the US Senate.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  3  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2017 03:29 pm
@edgarblythe,
People refer to the power disparity between professors and students, or Clinton and Lewinsky, even if the activity is consensual. That's the point I was making.

I guess if JFK and Queen Elizabeth, or Trump and Merkel, had a consensual relationship it might be okay.
edgarblythe
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2017 03:42 pm
@hightor,
Lewinsky is not as important to me as the cover up of rape charges against Bill.
farmerman
 
  5  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2017 03:45 pm
@edgarblythe,
by our own laws, what clinton did with lewinsky was not a felony. It was dumb judgement at best. The impeachment wasnt about happy pants, it was about lying to congress about happy pants.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2017 04:00 pm
@edgarblythe,
edgarblythe wrote:

I know JFK "womanized" but I don't recall stories that anybody was forced into unwanted situations.

There is that.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2017 04:38 pm
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
by our own laws, what clinton did with lewinsky was not a felony. It was dumb judgement at best. The impeachment wasnt about happy pants, it was about lying to congress about happy pants.

True, but the crazy feminists argue that when a man has sex with a female subordinate, that man must be fired in disgrace. If they do this for other men, it is fair that the same standard be applied to Clinton.

Or conversely, if it is OK for Clinton to do it, it should also be OK for anyone else to do it.

It wasn't Congress that he lied to. It was the court in the Paula Jones civil lawsuit and then later the grand jury investigating his earlier crimes.
farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2017 06:14 pm
@oralloy,
Quote:
but the crazy feminists argue that when a man has sex with a female subordinate, that man must be fired in disgrace.

In most companies that would be what wed expect had we worked under a company rules policy (many companies have same)

However F E L O N Y means C R I M E. seducing a 14 year old, even in Alabama, Is a F E L O N Y (Its also really creepy).
Quote:
It wasn't Congress that he lied to. It was the court in the Paula Jones civil lawsuit and then later the grand jury investigating his earlier crimes.


For which he was acquitted. right?


Nobody just walks on your say so. Your logic is fucked up by thinking only with your "right brain"
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2017 06:25 pm
@farmerman,
The diff between Clinton and Moore (besides the creepy fact that Moore is technically being accused of statutory rape). CLINTON went through the judicial process as required by the law as it pertains to the ppresident. He was then acquitted and had no action by the House .

He stood for all his "CRIMES", so, lets let Moore stand for his K?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2017 09:20 pm
@farmerman,
I agree with Edgar on this. Lewinsky is a diversion, inappropriate but consensual. Clinton was accused of a long string of pretty troubling offenses from women who are credible.

Juanita Broadrrick says that Bill Clinton raped her. She made this charge years before Bill Clinton ran for president (he was Attorney General of Arkansas at the time. Her story is credible, and consistent.

From The Atlantic

Quote:
At a different Arkansas hotel, [Bill Clinton] caught sight of a minor state employee named Paula Jones, and, Jones said, he sent a couple of state troopers to invite her to his suite, where he exposed his penis to her and told her to kiss it. Kathleen Willey said that she met him in the Oval Office for personal and professional advice and that he groped her, rubbed his erect penis on her, and pushed her hand to his crotch.


There are dozens of women who accused Bill Clinton of sexual assault before he became the darling of the Democratic party. This goes far beyond what happened with Lewinsky.

farmerman
 
  3  
Reply Fri 17 Nov, 2017 10:16 pm
@maxdancona,
all of this is understood. Was he not acquitted of the whole passel of counts? I didnt recall anything past one settlement and his impeachment and acquittal? Those were my years just deep woods prospecting in many foreign countries
ascribbler
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Nov, 2017 01:23 am
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
Bill Clinton should have resigned


Now that I know that consensual sex is wrong I'll have a long hard look at myself.
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Nov, 2017 03:07 am
@edgarblythe,
JFK pressured 19-year old White House intern Mimi Beardsley, whom he was having an affair with, into providing oral sex to one of his aides (reportedly the one responsible for producing such women) while he watched.
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Nov, 2017 03:14 am
@hightor,
Yes he should be. In fact Clinton himself invoked JFK in his partisan defenses at the time, saying that if JFK were to be held to the same standards Nixon would have been elected in 1960.

Quote:
Clinton himself raised this argument when he told his Cabinet in August 1998 that his earlier assurances of innocence in the Lewinsky affair were false. His Health and Human Services Secretary Donna Shalala upbraided him for his conduct, and noted that had he been a professor at the university she once ran, he would have been bounced for such conduct.

To which Clinton replied, according to the Washington Post, “that if her logic had prevailed in 1960, Richard M. Nixon would have been elected president instead of John F. Kennedy.”


https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/11/14/roy-moore-allegations-bill-clinton-democrats-215825
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 18 Nov, 2017 06:06 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
For which he was acquitted. right?

Right. The Democrats feel that they should be above the law, so acquitted him despite his clear guilt.


farmerman wrote:
Nobody just walks on your say so.

Correct. It was not me who placed the Bill Clinton above the law. The Democrats did that themselves.


farmerman wrote:
Your logic is fucked up by thinking only with your "right brain"

My logic is fine.

I strongly reject the notion that the supposed tu quoque fallacy is really a fallacy.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Sat 18 Nov, 2017 06:08 am
@farmerman,
farmerman wrote:
The diff between Clinton and Moore (besides the creepy fact that Moore is technically being accused of statutory rape). CLINTON went through the judicial process as required by the law as it pertains to the ppresident. He was then acquitted and had no action by the House.

He stood for all his "CRIMES", so, lets let Moore stand for his K?

That would be fair only if we could guarantee that Moore would also be acquitted.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Sat 18 Nov, 2017 06:22 am
@farmerman,
Quote:
all of this is understood. Was he not acquitted of the whole passel of counts? I didnt recall anything past one settlement and his impeachment and acquittal? Those were my years just deep woods prospecting in many foreign countries


No! Bill Clinton was not acquitted for sexual harrassment. Nor was he acquitted for the rape of Juanita Broadrrick. He was acquited for obstruction of justice in regards to the Lewinsky affair.

Bill Clinton is the same as Weinstein and Spacey and Judge Moore. There are lots of credible consistent claims of sexual assault from multiple women. None of these people have had their day in court.

The only difference is that Bill Clinton is still loved by half the country.
hightor
 
  2  
Reply Sat 18 Nov, 2017 07:00 am
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Bill Clinton is the same as Weinstein and Spacey and Judge Moore.

I don't think Clinton paid off his accusers and made them sign non-disclosure agreement. I don't think Clinton plied underage men with alcohol. I don't think Clinton cruised shopping malls looking to pickup teenage girls. I might have missed the full story but it seems simplistic to say that Bill Clinton is the same as Weinstein and Spacey and Judge Moore. The perpetrators and the victims deserve to be treated as individuals, the crimes as unique.
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Sat 18 Nov, 2017 07:49 am
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:

JFK pressured 19-year old White House intern Mimi Beardsley, whom he was having an affair with, into providing oral sex to one of his aides (reportedly the one responsible for producing such women) while he watched.

Well, then he stands with Clinton. I was not defending him on partisan grounds, as I did not like him and Johnson any better than Nixon and Agnew.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 18 Nov, 2017 08:26 am
@hightor,
Geez, Hightor... at least get the facts straight. Bill Clinton did pay off at least one of his accusers (Paula Jones). Clinton is alleged to have committed rape (Juanita Broadrick). Clinton used state police to get women for him. Clinton exposed himself to women, and groped women.

If there is a category of powerful men accused of committing troubling sexual offenses, Bill Clinton belongs in that group.

Again, from The Atlantic (yes, the liberal magazine)

Quote:
Yet let us not forget the sex crimes of which the younger, stronger Bill Clinton was very credibly accused in the 1990s. Juanita Broaddrick reported that when she was a volunteer on one of his gubernatorial campaigns, she had arranged to meet him in a hotel coffee shop. At the last minute, he had changed the location to her room in the hotel, where she says he very violently raped her. She said that she fought against Clinton throughout a rape that left her bloodied. At a different Arkansas hotel, he caught sight of a minor state employee named Paula Jones, and, Jones said, he sent a couple of state troopers to invite her to his suite, where he exposed his penis to her and told her to kiss it. Kathleen Willey said that she met him in the Oval Office for personal and professional advice and that he groped her, rubbed his erect penis on her, and pushed her hand to his crotch.


https://www.theatlantic.com/entertainment/archive/2017/11/reckoning-with-bill-clintons-sex-crimes/545729/

The defense of Bill Clinton from people outraged by these other men is hypocrisy.
 

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