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No one has tried to kill me - yet

 
 
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 01:18 pm
An excellent post from http://dneiwert.blogspot.com/ , on how America is displaying some very memorable and scary signs of the slide into facism:

Quote:
Headin' for the big roundup
Tuesday, January 04, 2005
Having made two post-election jaunts to the red state hinterlands of Idaho and Montana, I'm back to report that, well, things are getting ugly out there. In some cases, really ugly.

I've been talking for some time about the course that eliminationist rhetoric on the right would eventually take by the force of its own nature: pretty soon we'd go from talking about liberals as traitors to overtly wishing for violence to be visited upon them and discussing locking them up, followed in due course by such violence and incarceration becoming a reality.

Well, it is now becoming a commonly spoken sentiment on the right to wish for violence against liberals and to simultaneously suggest they and all "traitors" (including Muslim Americans) should be locked away. We're firmly into Phase II now.

Now, you won't hear this talk on the upper levels of the conservative movement. People like William Bennett will call for a "national renewal" aimed at enforcing a new moral code, while Ann Coulter will explain to her readership, a la the title of her most recent "bestseller", that the "preferable" way to address a liberal is with "a baseball bat." [Ha ha. Whatsa matter, you don't think that's funny? Someone should beat you up.]

And if you talk to supposedly "reasonable" conservatives, who will claim that talk like this remains relegated to the fringes and is just so much "hot talk." I've been hearing this for a long time, but I keep hearing more and more of the eliminationist talk.

You hear it when conservatives -- especially those red-state cultural conservatives from the working class who are most likely to vote against their own self-interest, and then blame liberals for how lousy their lives are -- get together among themselves for their communal liberal-bashing hatefests. They'll say it when they think no one else is listening. You can hear it from "fringe" radio figures like Michael Savage. Or you can read it in the unpublished letters to the editor that most publications choose not to run.

It's the natural outgrowth of the kind of rhetoric we've gotten from the national conservative punditry, manifesting itself on a less sophisticated but more direct and plain-spoken mode.

My very clear impression of the rank-and-file American right is that many if not most of them, at the behest of their leaders, now believe that opposing George W. Bush and the Iraq War, as well as his handling of the War on Terror, is an act of genuine treason worthy of the ultimate social condemnation, including incarceration and execution. They feel not only vindicated but profoundly empowered by the election result, empowered to silence their opposition, by force if need be.

These aren't just my impressions from hanging out in Deep Red Country. The evidence is abundant elsewhere as well. Consider, for instance, some of the letters to the editor received by Editor and Publisher after it published a piece by former USA Today publisher Al Neuharth (who is not exactly a liberal) questioning the administration's handling of Iraq.

One correspondent wished we had formed an alliance with Hitler (so we could have eliminated Commies and leftists from the planet first), while the rest called the offending authors "cowards and traitors", "unAmerican," "jackals," and the like. Then the threatening notes enter:

Their dissent equals treason. The terrorists got him just like all the other rich liberals who side against our victory. They forget that wars end, and then the country takes stock of who was where.

More along those lines:

Neuharth should be tried for treason along with a lot of other blowhards who should be spending their energies condemning the barbarism of our enemies, the same people who destroyed the Twin Towers.

... In the end William Joyce was executed for giving aid and comfort to the enemy during war time. Would that the same fate befall Al Neuharth!

The consummate expression of these attitudes was this:

The Patriot Act will put both of you (Neuharth and Mitchell) on trial for treason and convict and execute both of you as traitors for running these stories in a time of war and it should be done on TV for other communist traitors like you two to know we mean business. This is war and you should be put in prison NOW for talking like this. Who the hell do you people think you are? You give aid and comfort to our enemies and aid them in murdering our proud soldiers. You people are a disgrace to America. Your families should be put in prison with you, then be made to leave and move to the Middle East ...This is a great Christian nation and god wants us to lead the world out of darkness with great leaders like President George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Communists like Al and Greg will soon be in prison and on death row for your ugly papers. We won the election and now you are mad. We own America and all the rights, you people are trash, go back to Russia and Africa and take your friends with before we put you on death row after a fair trial.

E&P had earlier been the recipient of a similar e-mail from a fellow named Joe M. Richardson voicing similar sentiments, while holding forth on the subject of the soldiers who dared to question Donald Rumsfeld (cited by Atrios):

The duped soldier should be put at the very front of the action, no armor. The cooperating sergeant's career should be over and maybe become MIA. Pitts and all his cronies should be executed as traitors. We are fighting a war, the debate is over, you're either for us or against us, there is no middle ground. I say start executing the leftists in our country, soon.

Bow-tied Beltway Republicans (and liberals, too) like to disregard talk like this as unrepresentative. But I don't think that's the case any longer. I think they're not just blowing smoke, they're deluding themselves. It's out there, and it's just about everywhere.

As Better Angels put it:

As for ol' Joe: nothing that you say to someone like him will change his mind. What I'm afraid of is that there are many, many more like him, that they're the ones driving the debate, and that we won't be able to unhorse them until this noble, great, beloved country of mine lies in ruins--and even then, they'll be so congenitally unable to accept responsibility that they'll be looking for blame everywhere except where it lies--in themselves.

A lot of my regular readers wondered why I jumped all over Michelle Malkin for her noxious defense of the Japanese American internment. Aside from my extensive background in dealing with the subject -- enough to know that Malkin was perpetrating an outrage against memory and history -- the more pertinent concern was that I could see where this argument was heading.

Malkin's disingenuous disclaimers notwithstanding, it was clear she was creating a rationale for repeating one of American history's real atrocities by rounding up and incarcerating the nation's Arab and/or Muslim populace and placing them in concentration camps (given an appropriate GOP-style euphemism like, say, "homeland security centers"). Earlier this week, Bush appointee Daniel Pipes published an op-ed piece clearly advocating the view that such internment should be considered a viable option. (Eric Muller has the consummate commentary on Pipes' piece.)

As Juan Cole observed, in light of Pipes' piece:

If the American yahoos ever start putting people in concentration camps, I think we may be assured that they won't stop with the Muslims or the Asians, and Mr. Pipes will come to have reason to regret his imprudence and, frankly, his demonic implication.

So will, I suspect, a whole class of willfully self-deluded conservatives and "moderate" liberals. As for the rest of us, well, who knows whether we'll even still be around when they finally reach their epiphany?
8:37 PM


Cycloptichorn
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 01:20 pm
From discussion on the piece found at http://www.notgeniuses.com/archives/002075.html :

Quote:
You see it in some of the letters to the editor to Editor and Publisher magazine, regarding a columnist there who dared suggest (very meekly, I might add) that the Iraq war might not have been such a hot idea:

The Patriot Act will put both of you (Neuharth and Mitchell) on trial for treason and convict and execute both of you as traitors for running these stories in a time of war and it should be done on TV for other communist traitors like you two to know we mean business. This is war and you should be put in prison NOW for talking like this. Who the hell do you people think you are? You give aid and comfort to our enemies and aid them in murdering our proud soldiers. You people are a disgrace to America. Your families should be put in prison with you, then be made to leave and move to the Middle East ...This is a great Christian nation and god wants us to lead the world out of darkness with great leaders like President George W. Bush and Dick Cheney. Communists like Al and Greg will soon be in prison and on death row for your ugly papers. We won the election and now you are mad. We own America and all the rights, you people are trash, go back to Russia and Africa and take your friends with before we put you on death row after a fair trial.
If we on the left lull ourselves into believing that this sort of bloodlust has been satiated by the 2004 Bush victory, we'll be happily marching into our own barbed-wire encampments, and I'm afraid I mean that more literally than I'd like to. This is not an external war. At heart, it's against us. It's against liberals, and the thirst for neverending foreign monster-hunting is really just an external projection of the liberal monster they hope to one day train their artillery on. Digby made a brilliant observation recently when he said that the Republicans have proven their toughness to the American people by fighting a proxy war against the Democrats. What is happening now is the next logical step: the foriegn wars are becoming proxies, each a galvanizing force that reduces us into a binary population -- patriot or traitor.

This is one of the darkest and most primitive urges within humanity, and it's encoded into our own psychic DNA: a tribalism that fears the corrupting influence of the enemy within. To imagine that we're not susceptible to it is madness. The Germans of the 19th century were the most culturally sophisticated and accomplished society on earth. They didn't mutate into subhuman cannibals; Nazism (and its Romanesque cousin Fascism) was driven by instincts that are as natural as the urge to ****.

The nastier, more openly vicious voices on the right (Rush, O'Reilly, Savage, Coulter, Hannity, and even the WSJ Op-Ed page and Drudge) are conditioning their audience to hate, and hate passionately. But ultimately, they're not urging hatred of terrorists, or Al Qaeda, or even Arabs and Muslims, although it may often seem that these groups are their targets. No; the enemy their audience is to hate above all others is liberals. It is us. We are the ultimate evil, the cause of 9/11, the instigators of society's downfall, the corrupting influence on their children and the cowardly capitulator to foreign devils. It is us. And their audience has responded far more enthusiastically than our false sense of enlightment had ever let us fear possible.

And the marching continues, and it will continue, unless it is stopped by an equally powerful movement of Americans who have the courage to stand up to this angry mob. Otherwise, the final destination of the marching will be our own doorstep. It's as simple as reading history.

One of the comments to David's post caught my eye. It was written by reader First:

No one has tried to kill me yet.

No, no one has. And no one will, until they do.


Cycloptichorn
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plainoldme
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 01:26 pm
Joining in.

When I was on abuzz, I spent a few months making hash marks on a paper and at the end of my trial period, discovered for everyone belligerent comment made by a leftist, 8 were made by a rightie.

The funny thing is that when the workers' movement began, there was a real drive toward education, with workers joining discussion groups and crafts groups (like Boston's Satruday Evening Girls). Now, the right claims to be more educated! Right!
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 01:43 pm
I suppose over that same period a "rightie" might have found more belligerent comments to have been posted by "leftist" posters, and fewer by "rightie" posters. Hmm?
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 01:51 pm
Anecdotal evidence aside, does anyone disagree that the right has moved into a much more confronatational tone when dealing with the left? That verbage is being used which is somewhat hostile, and is gaining acceptance amongst the Republican party?

Cycloptichorn
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jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 01:55 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Anecdotal evidence aside, does anyone disagree that the right has moved into a much more confronatational tone when dealing with the left? That verbage is being used which is somewhat hostile, and is gaining acceptance amongst the Republican party?

Cycloptichorn


I think politics in general have gotten more and more disgusting. To say the right is more confrontational than the left or vice versa is simply showing which side your on.
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candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 02:02 pm
...and I honestly believe that in attempts to either educate ourselves or to alter opinions on this board, we help carve an even deeper divide between the right and the left, IMO.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 02:04 pm
Great avatar, JP - though you might want to make one with a tsunami on it these days.

I understand your point, but you'd be a little more hard-pressed to find people on the left with the same level of venom as coulter or limbaugh, O'reilly or Savage. You don't really see Lefties advocating the beating of right-wingers with baseball bats, or perhaps jailing them for their pro-war opinions.

Railing against elected officials is one thing; condemnation of a philosophy is another, and a much more insiduous and evil thing.

Cycloptichorn
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jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 02:14 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Great avatar, JP - though you might want to make one with a tsunami on it these days.


Thanks... I thought about a tsunami... but then thought I better not.

Cycloptichorn wrote:
I understand your point, but you'd be a little more hard-pressed to find people on the left with the same level of venom as coulter or limbaugh, O'reilly or Savage. You don't really see Lefties advocating the beating of right-wingers with baseball bats, or perhaps jailing them for their pro-war opinions.


Not sure I agree with this one... remember awhile back when someone posted pictures of protestors in the street after the election? Most of them were far left rogues complete with their burning effigies and Hitler comparisons. There are nuts on the left and nuts on the right... but they are both equally nutty.

Cycloptichorn wrote:
Railing against elected officials is one thing; condemnation of a philosophy is another, and a much more insiduous and evil thing.


We have people on this board everyday who condemn anything right of their own beliefs.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 02:15 pm
Well actually I don't see many "lefties" on this board, I being one of the few. Anyway, I've never backed away from the thought that the beating of right-wingers with baseball bats, or perhaps jailing them for their pro-war opinions was a bad idea. I mean, what the hell, what's good for the goose and all that tommy rot. Ash is too good for the fargin' bastiches, I prefer aluminum bats.
0 Replies
 
Brandon9000
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 02:30 pm
I wish that people would just do their best to get their candidate elected or appointed (e.g. Clarence Thomas), as the case may be, and, if they lose, just accept it gracefully and vow to do better next time. Of course, I also wish that a million dollars would fall out of the sky and land in my lap.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 02:56 pm
I hate the sound of aluminum bats. They really should do away with the blasted things.

Cycloptichorn
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jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 03:05 pm
"Let the people see what war is like. This isn't an Xbox game. There are real repercussions to Bush's folly. That said, I feel nothing over the death of merceneries. They aren't in Iraq because of orders, or because they are there trying to help the people make Iraq a better place. They are there to wage war for profit. Screw them." -- Markos Moulitsas ZĂșniga on the four Americans who were murdered by terrorists and then had their corpses desecrated in Fallujah, Iraq


Markos Moulitsas Zuniga
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 03:11 pm
An intersting point; and one I would personally agree with.

You go to make a profit off of an occupied country, you takes yer chances. Mercenaries (even American mercenaries, or ones hired by us) get little pity in my mind.

Not that this has anything to do with the topic, as the author is not advocating any sort of action whatsoever(as the topic suggest conservatives are); merely a lack of pity.

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 03:19 pm
Saying "the 'preferable' way to address a liberal is with "a baseball bat" is evil... but not caring about people who have been kidnapped and beheaded is just a lack of pity?

Let remnd you what you said here:

"If the price of the war is many thousands more deaths(I really don't care if it is Americans of foreigners who die, a life is a life to me) then it simply isn't worth it.
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 03:26 pm
I remember saying it. I don't wish for anyone to die because of this war; a life is a life.

But, the difference between soldiers (who are doing duty to their country), insurgents (who at least in theory are fighting for their country's independence) and mercenaries, who are there for money, should be obvious to anyone.

I don't wish for anyone to die, but I don't cry when those who profit off of the death and suffering of others do.

But, once again; this has little to do with the topic, and I'd really rather discuss the topic, wouldn't you?

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 03:34 pm
http://ace.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/p800576reg.jpg
0 Replies
 
jpinMilwaukee
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 03:34 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:


But, once again; this has little to do with the topic, and I'd really rather discuss the topic, wouldn't you?

Cycloptichorn



Nah... I'm done talking... I'm going to go buy a baseball bat

:wink:
0 Replies
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 03:53 pm
Dys! <shudder>

They only made those things so high-schoolers can hit homeruns. They should go back to the ash...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Piffka
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 04:02 pm
http://prodtn.cafepress.com/8/14321728_F_tn.jpg
0 Replies
 
 

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