2
   

And the news just gets grimmer!

 
 
au1929
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 03:35 pm
He can run but he can not hide. Was that statement referring to Bush. If not it should have been. He can deny, deny and continue to deny but eventually he will be forced to pull his head out of his butt and face reality.
,
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 04:16 pm
woiyo wrote:

As a result, we had every right to go in to IRaq, remove the regime and seek and destroy any WMD found.

For you to suggest that the US Govt lied about the Intel, is naive at best given that the UN agreed that they did exist.


Here's more...since my saying so somehow lacks substance:

Quote:
Powell also said he hoped a commission investigating the US intelligence on Iraq's alleged weapons of mass destruction would reveal how the CIA ended up depending on unreliable sources for key evidence he used to argue for war.

source

Quote:
British intelligence used to bolster British Prime Minister Tony Blair's march to war in Iraq was "seriously flawed," Lord Butler said Wednesday as he presented the findings of his five-month review.

Before the invasion of Iraq, Blair managed to persuade parliament to support the war on the premise that Baghdad was storing chemical and biological weapons. To date, those weapons have not been found.

source

Quote:
According to recent testimony to the Senate Armed Services Committee by CIA Director George Tenet, the Bush administration was warned at numerous points about flaws in the intelligence cited during the lead-up to the invasion of Iraq

source
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Tue 4 Jan, 2005 04:36 pm
woiyo wrote:
3. During the 10 years of inaction by all memebr Nations of the UN, all worldwide intelligence reports indicated that Iraq was at the LEAST a gathering threat to the region and the US as Iraq had demonstrated an effort to support al-queda with cash and or arms.

As a result, we had every right to go in to IRaq, remove the regime and seek and destroy any WMD found.


That's not true woiyo. During the 10 years, the UN had sent continuously
experts to Iraq to search for WMD or other violations, and none where found.
Blix' reports were very thorough and made the UN decide against invading Iraq. The US had no right, nor support through the UN members, to invade Iraq and remove the regime. No WMD were found as they did not exist.

If Saddam Hussein indeed supported the Al Quaida was never established or proven by anyone.

Iraq posted no threat to the United States, in earlier years it was a strong
ally against Iran, and in later years Iraq was a trading partner to the US,
despite the embargo. Yes, Hussein was a callous and malicious dictator,
killing many innocent people (Kurds), but no threat to the US.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 09:40 am
Here's another perspective:

Quote:
It is not that the threat of terrorism is not real, but that Bush's policies in dealing with terrorism are actually fueling the fire. A recent poll showed that the majority of Americans have finally recognized that the war in Iraq has actually increased the threat of terrorism. Talking about Bush's policies on terrorism and his pre-emptive invasion of Iraq, Al Gore says, "Instead of making it better, he has made it infinitely worse. We are less safe because of his policies…….the unpleasant truth is that President Bush's utter incompetence has made the world a far more dangerous place and dramatically increased the threat of terrorism against the United States." Bush totally fell into Bin Laden's trap. Bin Laden couldn't have imagined a better recruiting tool for terrorists than for Bush to invade Iraq. The way Bush is fighting terrorism is actually the very act which is invoking and creating more of it in the first place.


Source
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 09:44 am
candidone1 wrote:
Here's another perspective:

Quote:
It is not that the threat of terrorism is not real, but that Bush's policies in dealing with terrorism are actually fueling the fire. A recent poll showed that the majority of Americans have finally recognized that the war in Iraq has actually increased the threat of terrorism. Talking about Bush's policies on terrorism and his pre-emptive invasion of Iraq, Al Gore says, "Instead of making it better, he has made it infinitely worse. We are less safe because of his policies…….the unpleasant truth is that President Bush's utter incompetence has made the world a far more dangerous place and dramatically increased the threat of terrorism against the United States." Bush totally fell into Bin Laden's trap. Bin Laden couldn't have imagined a better recruiting tool for terrorists than for Bush to invade Iraq. The way Bush is fighting terrorism is actually the very act which is invoking and creating more of it in the first place.


Source



Sad...but oh, so true.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 09:46 am
Here's another perspective:

Quote:


http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=16513
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 09:51 am
Yeah...I read that in another thread.

I'm pretty willing to see the validity in both perspectives, as each and every perspective has it's own unique flavor.

I do agree that the actions by some on the left can be toxic to the environment of this current war, but I also have to maintain that the actions by some on the right exhibit a different breed of toxicity.
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 09:52 am
Tico,

the same statement could have come from any african
citizen suffering under his regime. No help in sight there.....

Let's face it: Bush had an ulterior motive to invade Iraq
and it wasn't out of humanitarian reason.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 09:54 am
or to put it another way "'Did the pollution you caused increase or decrease your profits?"
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 12:58 pm
BAGHDAD, Iraq (Jan. 5) -- A car bomb exploded outside a police academy south of Baghdad during a graduation ceremony Wednesday, killing at least 20 people amid a surge in violence ahead of a landmark election. Hours earlier, another car bomb killed two Iraqis in the nation's capital.


The bloodshed brought the death toll to more than 90 in the last four days. Despite the insurgency - which U.S. troops and Iraqi security forces have been helpless to prevent - American and Iraqi leaders insist the vote would go forward as scheduled despite the violence aimed against holding the ballot.


''We will not allow the terrorist to stop the political process in Iraq,'' Iraqi Interim Prime Minister Ayad Allawi, a secular Shiite leader, said Wednesday. ''The elections process is the basis for the deepening of the national unity in Iraq.''


The explosion outside a gate of the police academy in Hillah, about 60 miles south of Baghdad, was the latest in a string of attacks against Iraqi security forces. Capt. Hady Hatef said it killed at least 20 people and wounded an unspecified number.


The number of Iraqi policemen killed in the last four months of 2004 was 1,300 before the latest blast, according to the Iraqi Interior Ministry figures released Wednesday. It was unclear if all the 20 killed were police.
The Iraqi police and security troops represent a soft target for the insurgents because of their poor training and equipment compared to the U.S.-led coalition forces. The militants consider Iraqi soldiers as collaborators with the American occupiers.


''Hostile force are still trying to harm and cause damages, but the Iraqi forces are becoming better and they have captured and killed some terrorists,'' Allawi told reporters.


He said that the Iraqi security forces recently arrested two aides of Jordanian terrorist Abu Musab al-Zarqawi who is believed to be leading the insurgency in Iraq.


''They were detained in Mosul along with three or four others and they have started confessing now to Iraqi security about the networks they run in order to harm our people,'' Allawi said.


Earlier Wednesday, an explosives-filled car following a convoy of U.S. and Iraqi troops detonated in Baghdad's western district of Amiriyah, killing two Iraqi civilians and wounding 10, police officials said. No troops were hurt.


The attack also came as a funeral procession was held nearby for slain Baghdad governor Ali al-Haidari, who was known for cooperating closely with U.S. troops. Al-Haidari was killed on Tuesday. It was not clear if Wednesday suicide car bomb was targeting the mourners, which included Iraqi officials, or the convoy of troops.


In a third attack Wednesday, gunmen killed Iraqi police Col. Khalifa Hassan and his driver as they headed to work in the restive city of Baqoubah, 30 miles northeast of Baghdad, Dr. Ahmed Fouad of the Baqoubah General Hospital said.



Also, four Iraqi civilians were killed and two others were injured when U.S. soldiers opened fire after their convoy was attacked by rocket-propelled grenades in central Ramadi, 60 miles west of Baghdad, according to Dr. Riyad al-Hiti of the Ramadi hospital. The U.S. military had no immediate information about the incident.


A U.S. soldier belonging to Task Force Olympia was killed and two were wounded after their patrol was attacked with small arms and rocket propelled grenade fire Tuesday afternoon in Tal Afar in northern Iraq, the U.S. military said Wednesday.


Five other U.S. servicemen died in three separate attacks on Tuesday, making it the deadliest day for the U.S. military in Iraq since the suicide bombing at a mess tent in Mosul on Dec. 21, an attack that killed 22 people including 14 U.S. soldiers and three American contractors.
White House spokesman Scott McClellan on Tuesday acknowledged security ''challenges'' in Iraq but said the election timetable would not be changed.


Prime Minister Tony Blair on Wednesday said he remains committed to holding elections as scheduled.


''I am committed to it, yes, because I think it is extremely important that the terrorists don't gain a victory,'' Blair said in an interview on British Broadcasting Corp. radio. ''The vast majority of Iraqis want to participate in these elections.''


Many areas of Iraq are calm, but vast regions, including the capital, are extremely dangerous. In places like Fallujah, which was bombed to ruins in a U.S.-led campaign in November, and the northern city of Mosul, there has been little headway in preparing for the vote.
The attacks have prompted Sunni Arab clerics to call for a boycott, and Iraq's largest Sunni political party announced it was pulling out of the race because of poor security.



The country's Shiites, many of whom are in the government, want to take power but they also want the Sunnis to participate in the vote. A low turnout because of the fear of violence or a Sunni boycott could undermine the legitimacy of the country's first free elections since 1958.


source: http://aolsvc.news.aol.com/news/article.adp?id=20050105054009990018
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 01:31 pm
ok lets say the US troops are pretty busy just maintaining defense, lets also say what Iraqi forces are loyal to "our " cause are defecting of at best "part-time" defenders of "our" interests" lets also say that the Iraqi employed forces are busy failing to protect the current interim government agents. Ok now let us convince the Iraqi citizens that someone will protect them and their right to vote.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 02:07 pm
I'm getting a funny feeling that a huge number of Iraqis don't want Americans in their country--just a hunch though.
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 02:13 pm
I'll go out on a limb and say your hunch is right, Candidone.

Wonder how long it's gonna take before that dawns on Bush and company?
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 02:21 pm
well interestingly, Barry Goldwater said that the only way to win the war in Vietnam was to level it with nukes (he was probably right) it seems to be getting that way in Iraq as well.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 02:32 pm
Frank Apisa wrote:
I'll go out on a limb and say your hunch is right, Candidone.

Wonder how long it's gonna take before that dawns on Bush and company?


What...these guys? (can't hotlink...have to link)

Picture-link
0 Replies
 
Frank Apisa
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 02:42 pm
candidone1 wrote:
Frank Apisa wrote:
I'll go out on a limb and say your hunch is right, Candidone.

Wonder how long it's gonna take before that dawns on Bush and company?


What...these guys? (can't hotlink...have to link)

Picture-link



Funnnny! Laughing
0 Replies
 
CalamityJane
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 02:47 pm
Yeah, it's just not so funny for the poor American souls fighting in Iraq, just because their president is ignorant
and blind.

It's not a hunch - it's a fact, that no arab nation wants
the Americans there.
0 Replies
 
candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 04:11 pm
Although I pity the American soldiers...the armed forces are a voluntary endeavor.
Whether this war was based on false or legitimate pretenses, had authority or lacked it...they'd still be holding their guns in the desert in the middle east.
I just think it's a shame that the means to end any conflict has to be with violence.

Idealistic, I know.
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Wed 5 Jan, 2005 04:15 pm
if the ends don't justify the means, what does?
0 Replies
 
 

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