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Is Colin Kaepernick not good enough to play in the NFL or is he being blackballed?

 
 
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 11:44 am
What do you think? Is he being blackballed by NFL owners for his kneeling protest against police brutality or is he just not good enough to make a roster?
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Type: Discussion • Score: 13 • Views: 953 • Replies: 52

 
Robert Gentel
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 11:49 am
@Robert Gentel,
NBA coach Steve Kerr's take:

Quote:
"He is being blackballed, that's a no-brainer.

"All you have to do is read the transactions every day, when you see the quarterbacks who are being hired. He's way better than any of them.

"But the NFL has a different fanbase than the NBA. The NBA is more urban, the NFL is more conservative.

"I think a lot of NFL fans are truly angry at Kaepernick, and I think owners are worried what it's going to do to business."


http://www.bbc.com/sport/american-football/41835192
Region Philbis
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 12:10 pm
@Robert Gentel,

they would deny it until they are all blue in the face, but it does seem like collectively the owners don't want him in the league.

nevertheless, his lawyer claims he will be signed by an NFL team shortly...
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 12:32 pm
He's good enough to be a 2nd or 3rd string QB. I don't think he's an obvious NFL starter.

I also think it's likely that the owners don't want a 2nd or 3rd string QB that has this much drama attached to them.
Cycloptichorn
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 12:35 pm
@maporsche,
He's clearly good enough to be a starting QB in a league where Ryan Mallet and Jacoby Brisset are starters. He's better than Jay Cutler and Deshone Kizer, ffs

Cycloptichorn
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 12:37 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

He's clearly good enough to be a starting QB in a league where Ryan Mallet and Jacoby Brisset are starters. He's better than Jay Cutler and Deshone Kizer, ffs

Cycloptichorn



Nah man. I'm a Seahawks fan and I've watched that QB over the years more than most NFL fans have. He's got his moments, but I don't think he's heads and shoulders above any other starting QB.

Those guys are other backup QBs in the league. They happen to be starting due to injury.
Cycloptichorn
 
  3  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 02:07 pm
@maporsche,
He's not head and shoulders above most starting QBs, but is he worse than 32 other QBs in the league? Not by a long shot. He should be playing for a team right now, based on skill alone.

Cutler is a starter and he's nowhere near as good as Kaep imho.

Cycloptichorn
maporsche
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 02:10 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
Cycloptichorn wrote:

He's not head and shoulders above most starting QBs, but is he worse than 32 other QBs in the league? Not by a long shot. He should be playing for a team right now, based on skill alone.

Cutler is a starter and he's nowhere near as good as Kaep imho.

Cycloptichorn


There's two sides to equation though. What if Kaepernick won't accept just any contract? What if he thinks he should make 12MM per year and the teams disagree? It's not just based on skill....it's based on skill and what that skill is worth, versus what Kaepernick thinks his skill is worth. Plenty of players careers end when they think their worth is much more than other teams think their skill is worth.

I think he's probably the 40th best QB in the league. I would rather have Cutler honestly.
engineer
 
  3  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 02:15 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Fivethirtyeight.com did a nice piece based straight up on numbers where they showed that his numbers last year would have put him in the top half of all QB's playing this year and he has by far the best numbers of any QB that has ever gone unsigned. ESPN also did a piece (that I can't find) where they asked coaches off the record about Kaepernick and concluded it is more about racism than protests. Repeatedly, the coaches said Kaepernick wouldn't fit in their systems and only teams that have "active" QB's like Charlotte or Seattle would be good fits (both those teams have black QBs) even though Kaepernick is a classic pocket QB and has better numbers in the pocket than outside. The coaches also kept referring to RG3 and asking why no one is talking about him even though his numbers are terrible compared to Kaepernick's and he is injury prone (but he's black.) Either way, Kaepernick is clearly starter material for about half the teams in the NFL and solid backup material for all of them.
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 02:17 pm
@maporsche,
Not me. There isn't a single stat category in which Cutler is clearly better than Kaep and several that he's far worse in. Not even counting rushing, in which Kaep shines and Cutler ******* sucks.

I don't know how you could make an argument that Cutler is better. Cutler can't get his team to the playoffs and chokes regularly in pressure situations. He's not an especially accurate passer and he has a bad tendency to throw interceptions. His INT rate is literally double that of Kaep.

Quote:
I think he's probably the 40th best QB in the league. I would rather have Cutler honestly.


I think you'd have a hard time naming 25 QBs who are legit better than him, let alone 40. And as we're talking about whether he should be a backup somewhere, that's 64 QBs. I haven't heard of him even being given an offer by a team, let alone turning one down for not being enough money, so I don't think you can claim this is the holdup. Given that he's currently suing the NFL for not being given offers to play, I think that we can probably assume that he isn't being given offers.

Cycloptichorn
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 02:25 pm
@Cycloptichorn,
I said in my first post that I think he is a 2nd or 3rd string QB. That's not even a debatable question.

What is up for debate is whether or not Kaepernick would want to play for a team as a 2nd string QB or play for that contract and salary.
0 Replies
 
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 02:28 pm
@engineer,
Kaepernick was best when he was running around outside the pocket. He absolutely torched teams like Green Bay for 200+ yards rushing.

That system is unique to just a few teams in the NFL. He wasn't even able to continue to do that with San Francisco when they tried to force him into the pocket.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 02:33 pm
@engineer,
According to the Washington Post he's currently "better" than just 11 QBs in the NFL right now. 3 of whom are rookies. Some of whom are QBs historically good who are struggling (Cam Newton, Eli Manning, etc). Plus this statistical measuring year over year stuff isn't exactly precise.

If he was so good, why did San Fran cut him? Why couldn't he play better than Blaine Gabbert (who also currently doesn't have a job)?

It's not just as simple as "plug Kaep into this sytem and have him do better than the guy who went through training camp and......".

I think he should have a job. I just don't think it's a starting QB job.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/sports/kaepernick-tracker/?utm_term=.fcac4fd9170f
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 02:42 pm
@maporsche,
Yet when his numbers are analyzed, he was actually better in the pocket. His numbers tell a very different tale than the stories about him. Try this link to bust common Kaepernick myths.
engineer
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 02:51 pm
Green Bay coach continues to look like an idiot in refusing to consider Kaepernick. http://ftw.usatoday.com/2017/11/mike-mccarthy-colin-kaepernick-rant-packers-trying-sign-brian-hoyer-rodgers-video-quarterback-nfl
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 02:56 pm
@engineer,
engineer wrote:

Yet when his numbers are analyzed, he was actually better in the pocket. His numbers tell a very different tale than the stories about him. Try this link to bust common Kaepernick myths.


I read it. At the end.

"Kaepernick is not a good quarterback."

That, coupled with the 'attention' that he's getting, puts him in the same spot as Tim Tebow. Too much attention to a single player who is a 2nd string at best QB.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 02:57 pm
@engineer,
I know. Kaepernick was even a GB fan when he was a kid. They should sign him immediately.
0 Replies
 
engineer
 
  2  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 02:57 pm
@maporsche,
Very selective reading.

Quote:
Look, Kaepernick is not a good quarterback. He’s not as bad as his detractors will have you believe, either. He’s a slightly below average starter. Slightly below average quarterbacks have no trouble finding jobs in the NFL. Josh McCown is a bad quarterback who has no problem finding a job every season. Kaepernick’s inability to find a job has nothing to do with his talent or playing style, so let’s stop pretending it does.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 02:59 pm
@engineer,
Why do you think the Niners benched him last year for Blaine Gabbert who is currently also out of a job? The Niners seemed to support him all year, they even gave money to the causes he championed.

His inabilty to find a backup QB job is the same as Tim Tebow's. Its it solely based on talent, no, of course not. It's a combination of talent and his protesting. I wouldn't want the Seahawks to sign Kaepernick or Tebow. Skill-wise they are equal.
maporsche
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Nov, 2017 03:03 pm
Is the drama surrounding Kaepernick a reason that he is having difficulty getting signed as a backup QB?

Yes. Clearly it's a about his protesting and his marginal skill at the QB position.
0 Replies
 
 

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