2
   

Fascism and Bush

 
 
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 07:37 pm
I accused Bush in another thread for creating a form of government Hitler would love. I indeed compared modern day neo-conservatism to fascism and the rise of Nazi Germany. Well, I was laughed at, and some vile filled posts eschewed forth on my behalf.

Now, personally I think there are a LOT of similarities in fascism and our form of government. Here is a 14 point description of fascism I found. . .

Quote:
In an essay coyly titled "Fascism Anyone?," Dr. Lawrence Britt, a political scientist, identifies social and political agendas common to fascist regimes. His comparisons of Hitler, Mussolini, Franco, Suharto, and Pinochet yielded this list of 14 "identifying characteristics of fascism." (The following article is from Free Inquiry magazine, Volume 23, Number 2. Read it at http://www.secularhumanism.org/library/fi/britt_23_2.htm ) See how familiar they sound.

1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial, ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

4. Supremacy of the Military
Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

5. Rampant Sexism
The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

6. Controlled Mass Media
Sometimes the media are directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media are indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

7. Obsession with National Security
Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

9. Corporate Power is Protected
The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

10. Labor Power is Suppressed
Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed.

11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations

13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

14. Fraudulent Elections
Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.


source

I think this warrents discussions, because almost all of the points can be directly related to the current administration. Does anyone care to discuss?
 
McGentrix
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 07:40 pm
Rafick should get in on this action...
0 Replies
 
fishin
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 07:41 pm
The same points could be directly related to the last 20 administrations if one wanted to take the time to do so.
0 Replies
 
Joe Nation
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 07:43 pm
Now, now, Joe, just because they are batting 14 for 14 shouldn't raise any questions....... and we know where you live!!


Laughing

Joe (not Joe Stalin) Nation

PS serious discussion to follow
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 07:48 pm
Hi Joe and thanks for the thought-provoking thread.

Here's a quote by Benito Mussolini (who knew a thing or two about fascism):

Quote:
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."


And another:

Quote:
"We have created our myth. The myth is a faith, it is passion. It is not necessary that it shall be a reality. It is a reality by the fact that it is good, a hope, a faith, that it is courage. Our myth is the Nation, our myth is the greatness of the Nation! And to this myth, to this grandeur, that we wish to translate into a complete reality, we subordinate all the rest."
0 Replies
 
Joe Republican
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 08:06 pm
PDiddie wrote:
Hi Joe and thanks for the thought-provoking thread.

Here's a quote by Benito Mussolini (who knew a thing or two about fascism):

Quote:
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power."



This is the one which this administration really follows to a T, it reeks of fascism. When you have corporate industry leaders deciding the laws then you have corporatism, the basis of fascism. The fact that we have lobbiests, corporate cronies running government agencies and deciding fiscal policy is indeed fascist.

I always looked at the political spectrum this way,
Communism is complete left thinking and fascism is complete right thinking. The main differences are in corporations and government, in a communist economic system, the state controls the corporations and in a fascist economic system, the corporations control the government. Both forms of government are extreme totalitarian examples.

I would also like to add that there is a distinct difference between fascism and nazism. Nazism can be looked at as a subset of fascism, as it had differing aspects (mainly the environmental aspect of Hitler's policies.)

Some more good reading on the economical and political aspects of fascism can be found here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fascism

I also found this quote to be extremely fitting right now:

Quote:
Voice or no voice, the people can always
be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked,
and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and
exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any
country."

--Hitler's #2 Man, Hermann Goering
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 08:17 pm
during the 50's the pentagon commissioned a study conducted by numerous universities to determine an index of traits (personality) which would lead to a facist tendency. The results were what was named at the time "the f-scale" and measured facist tendencies as a direct correlation to lack of tolerance for ambiguity.
Interesting yes?
0 Replies
 
Joe Republican
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 08:28 pm
dyslexia wrote:
during the 50's the pentagon commissioned a study conducted by numerous universities to determine an index of traits (personality) which would lead to a facist tendency. The results were what was named at the time "the f-scale" and measured facist tendencies as a direct correlation to lack of tolerance for ambiguity.
Interesting yes?


You can take the f-scale test here

I'm a 2.9, I guess I'm a liberal airhead
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 08:34 pm
Joe Republican wrote:
This is the one which this administration really follows to a T, it reeks of fascism. When you have corporate industry leaders deciding the laws then you have corporatism, the basis of fascism. The fact that we have lobbiests, corporate cronies running government agencies and deciding fiscal policy is indeed fascist.


To be fair the Democrats are only slightly less better than the GOP is at it.

Everyone is familiar with Dick Cheney's shenanigans as head of the energy task force. First he invited Ken Lay and other oil cronies in to write the legislation, then declared 'executive privilege' and refused to make the meeting records public, and when the legality of that move was challenged to the Supreme Court, he took his buddy Antonin Scalia on a duck hunt in Louisiana.

Speaking of the Bayou State, Billy Tauzin, the former chair of the House Energy and Commerce committee (and a Dem-turned-Repub) resigned from the House of Representatives this past year to become head of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA), the trade group that represents drug giants such as Pfizer and Merck. He turned down an offer to replace Jack Valenti as head of the Motion Picture Association of America, and its $1 million salary, to accept the larger offer.

Tauzin was one of the principal authors of the Medicare prescription drug bill.

In addition to adding hundreds of billions of dollars for drug benefits, you may not have known that the law bars the federal government from directly bargaining down the price of drugs, a provision PhRMA pressed for.

Tauzin's son was narrowly defeated for his father's former seat in Congress in the November elections. Even the mudbugs and crackers in Louisiana know when a man's gone too far.

Tauzin's claim to fame was the quote (it was never verified he actually said it, in fairness):

Quote:
"I will fight for Louisiana's third district. Unless I get a better offer."
0 Replies
 
dyslexia
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 09:05 pm
1.56 I am a whining rotter.
0 Replies
 
Joe Republican
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 09:32 pm
PDiddie wrote:


Everyone is familiar with Dick Cheney's shenanigans as head of the energy task force. First he invited Ken Lay and other oil cronies in to write the legislation, then declared 'executive privilege' and refused to make the meeting records public, and when the legality of that move was challenged to the Supreme Court, he took his buddy Antonin Scalia on a duck hunt in Louisiana.


What most people are NOT aware of is the meeting with Arnold Schwarzenegger on May 17, 2001. Although Aahhnold "doesn't recall" the meeting, he was infact in a meeting with Kenneth Lay and convicted felon Mike Milkon.

On the outside, it would appear harmless, except for what transpired over the next year.

First, Enron was caught red handed bilking California out of $9 Billion dollars and they were already being dragged to court. Davis, the governer at the time, would not let Enron settle for pennies on the dollar and wanted to push Enron through the ringer and collect the money they illegally stole from the state.

So what is a man to do? It helps when you have friends in high places, they removed the governer. Now, with Arnold at the helm, his energy proposal showed NOTHING of the original money Davis tried to get Enron to pay, and they ended up settling for 2 pennies on the dollar, with Arnold's approval of course after Davis was removed from governer. . . Fascism at its finest.


Quote:

Speaking of the Bayou State, Billy Tauzin, the former chair of the House Energy and Commerce committee (and a Dem-turned-Repub) resigned from the House of Representatives this past year to become head of the Pharmaceutical Research and Manufacturers of America (PhRMA), the trade group that represents drug giants such as Pfizer and Merck. He turned down an offer to replace Jack Valenti as head of the Motion Picture Association of America, and its $1 million salary, to accept the larger offer.

Tauzin was one of the principal authors of the Medicare prescription drug bill.

In addition to adding hundreds of billions of dollars for drug benefits, you may not have known that the law bars the federal government from directly bargaining down the price of drugs, a provision PhRMA pressed for.


You forgot to mention that the Bushivecks strong armed the person who tried to let the government know their accounting was fraudulent. The Bushivecks knew if the real amount of the bill was disclosed, frugal conservatives would not go for it. So what is a country to do? Lie about the initial figure and threaten anyone who tries to get the figure out before the vote. After the bill passed, they noticed the "accounting error" which just so happened to total the same amount opponents of the bill were touting. Poor Richard Foster, the person was only doing his job, yet he was threatened because he discovered the actual cost of the bill.



http://www.nationalreview.com/nrof_bartlett/bartlett200403240809.asp

Quote:

Tauzin's son was narrowly defeated for his father's former seat in Congress in the November elections. Even the mudbugs and crackers in Louisiana know when a man's gone too far.

Tauzin's claim to fame was the quote (it was never verified he actually said it, in fairness):

Quote:
"I will fight for Louisiana's third district. Unless I get a better offer."


Ahh, selling out to the highest bidder, it's so prevelent in the Bushies its disgusting. You can throw in Zell Miller, the ex-democrat who was paid very hansomly for speaking at the RNC as well. He currently will start working for Fox News and got a posh job with McKenna Long & Aldridge, a republican law firm.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 09:39 pm
Re: Fascism and Bush
Joe Republican wrote:



Now, personally I think there are a LOT of similarities in fascism and our form of government. Here is a 14 point description of fascism I found. . .



You left out one really major point or item which is a sort of a democrat sacred cow and ultimate goal, i.e. the elimination of private ownership of firearms.

http://www.jpfo.org/

http://www.jpfo.org/GCA_68.htm

http://www.jpfo.org/gatway.gif
0 Replies
 
Joe Republican
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 09:54 pm
Re: Fascism and Bush
gungasnake wrote:
Joe Republican wrote:



Now, personally I think there are a LOT of similarities in fascism and our form of government. Here is a 14 point description of fascism I found. . .



You left out one really major point or item which is a sort of a democrat sacred cow and ultimate goal, i.e. the elimination of private ownership of firearms.

http://www.jpfo.org/

http://www.jpfo.org/GCA_68.htm


It's funny how you come up with elimination of guns being a democratic ideal, since they are for promoting the second amendment. What ther against is the ability for anyone to purchase an uzi without a backround check.

So am I to assume you agree on the 14 points?

BTW, gun control was A nazi belief, not a fascist one.
0 Replies
 
Asherman
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 10:12 pm
Asherman 2.66666
0 Replies
 
coluber2001
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 10:23 pm
It makes one wonder if Bush actually likes the immense federal budget deficit so he can justify severly slashing the domestic budget. Increase the military spending and slash domestic spending.

Also, he wants to loosen immingration laws concerning Mexico. Is this merely so corporations can get dirt-cheap labor? If you can't move the corporations to a third-world country, then move the third-world country to the corporations.
0 Replies
 
gungasnake
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 10:32 pm
Re: Fascism and Bush
Joe Republican wrote:


It's funny how you come up with elimination of guns being a democratic ideal, since they are for promoting the second amendment. What ther against is the ability for anyone to purchase an uzi without a backround check.


That's rubbish. Democrats have been on the wrong side of every firearm issue in America for the last 50 years and are just now starting to tone down their rhetoric a few degrees after surveying the damage their history on this issue has wrought:

http://www.tsra.com/Lott97.htm

Other than that, I don't even know anybody who owns an uzzi. In fact, AKs and uzzis are basically crowd control devices and not real rifles, meaning that you'd not be likely to hit anything past 100 meters with an AK or past 30 meters with an uzzi. In fact at fifty yards a guy with an uzzi would probably lose to a guy with one of the newer generation of bows. Modern bows can actually hit things past 50 yards.

Quote:

So am I to assume you agree on the 14 points?


Just 14? I'd figure there were considerably more (signs by which ye might know fascism) than that. For instance, govt. leaders porking teenage interns in the oval office while keeping visiting dignitaries waiting in the outer office, bombing innocent countries into the stone age to take bad news off the pages of our own newspapers, selling pardons, freeing known terorists to buy votes, selling nuclear secrets for campaign cash, bribery, abuse of power...
0 Replies
 
squinney
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 10:39 pm
2.833. Oh, Gawd. I think I'm to the right of asherman! Shocked Very Happy
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 10:59 pm
Joe Republican wrote:


You can take the f-scale test here

I'm a 2.9, I guess I'm a liberal airhead


Perhaps you are. I got a 3.23.
0 Replies
 
Ticomaya
 
  1  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 11:05 pm
I got a 3.8.

I'm "disciplined but tolerant; a true American."
0 Replies
 
georgeob1
 
  0  
Reply Mon 3 Jan, 2005 11:11 pm
Joe Republican wrote:

What most people are NOT aware of is the meeting with Arnold Schwarzenegger on May 17, 2001. Although Aahhnold "doesn't recall" the meeting, he was infact in a meeting with Kenneth Lay and convicted felon Mike Milkon.

On the outside, it would appear harmless, except for what transpired over the next year.

First, Enron was caught red handed bilking California out of $9 Billion dollars and they were already being dragged to court. Davis, the governer at the time, would not let Enron settle for pennies on the dollar and wanted to push Enron through the ringer and collect the money they illegally stole from the state.

So what is a man to do? It helps when you have friends in high places, they removed the governer. Now, with Arnold at the helm, his energy proposal showed NOTHING of the original money Davis tried to get Enron to pay, and they ended up settling for 2 pennies on the dollar, with Arnold's approval of course after Davis was removed from governer. . . Fascism at its finest.


Ken Lay was as well a major contributor to the Democrats under Clinton.

Your recitation of the facts concerning California's energy problem is incorrect in most particulars.

Hard to pin California's energy problems on Enron or anyone else outside the state. Harder still to picture Gray Davis as anything but an inept political patsy. He and the Democrat controlled State Legislature came up with a state agency run electrical power purchasing program that compelled the state agency to buy only on the spot market - this was their version of an attempt to outsmart a free market. Every energy trader in the country immediately invested in long-term purchase contracts and drove the spot price through the ceiling. Enron was but one among many.

California created its own problem by (1) prohibiting the construction of any power generating capacity in the state for the proceeding 15 years, becoming a major importer of power, and (2) deluding itself in a sophomoric state run attempt to outsmart a free market.
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
GAFFNEY: Whose side is Obama on? - Discussion by gungasnake
 
  1. Forums
  2. » Fascism and Bush
Copyright © 2020 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.04 seconds on 09/18/2020 at 11:16:15