Problems: Marriage & Work: Equality?

Green Witch, this is a really good question, and something I've thought about before. If I suddenly became rich, I think I would share it with him. I'm not sure, though, whether this means I Really Love Him or if I just think It's The Morally Correct Thing To Do. I'm fiercely driven by my own sense of morality, and it's important to me to try my best to be fair.

I think, actually, I love him a lot. Otherwise I never would have been willing to go through all this, and never would have spent 11 years living with him in the first place.

BTW if I really did win the lottery, Florida law says I would HAVE TO split it with him 50/50 anyway!

People stay in relationships for all sorts of reasons, BorisKitten. (Love the avatar!) Not the least of which is pure stubbornness.

Real love doesn't keep score.

You're right Eva, some (many?) people stay in relationships for reasons other than love or even friendship & affection. But I'm pretty sure I'm not one of them. I can honestly say that the majority of our relationship has been a very positive thing in my life. From what my husband has told me, I think he'd agree on that.

It would not be all that difficult for me to find a man who'd be willing to support me without question. I realize I've stayed in this relationship so long partly because I'm not looking to be supported, and it's not all that important to me. After all, I spent 17 years working full-time, and could easily have found someone to support me a long time ago if that's what I wanted.

I think a lot of our problem is his approach, a sort of "Do this or else" feeling. I really hate that, and I think my refusal has come more from that approach than any desire to not-work. As soon as I perceive I'm being threatened with negative consequences, all of my desire to comply flies right out the window.

Recently, with our screaming fights in the past few weeks, and calmer talks afterwards, he told me he's said this ("Do this or else") because he feels trapped: Trapped by not having substantial fall-back money and by not being able to pick up and move, which he used to do once a year (or more) before we met.

It's so odd that he's never used this word before (trapped), in all our seems-like-millions of fights & discussions about money & work. If he had, I might have been able to understand more where he's coming from. Then again, maybe not. Who knows?

I think in some ways our marriage came to a standstill 4-5 years ago, with our (my?) abortion. Since abandoning our mutual goal of having children, we haven't formed any other mutual goals, or even concrete individual ones.

This contract is our first formation of mutual goals in all that time. It's sad we've taken so long to get to this point, but we can't very well turn back the clock. One of the parts of the contract is a mutual goal to move to a new location. Even I am tired of this particular place & town, and I'm usually not big on moving.

I'm not sure I agree that Real Love doesn't keep score. I think if he refused to ever work again, I would leave him. I think "keeping score," or really, setting boundaries, is part of what love is about. For example, if one of us decided robbing banks, torturing animals, shooting heroin, having sex with others, etc. was a good idea, the other wouldn't necessarily stop loving the next day, but would stop loving in a fairly short period of time. So I'll never be able to say I'll always love him "no matter what," nor can I reasonably expect him to love me "no matter what."

It is (in some part) this very agreement on what's OK and what's not that makes us "in love." So I can't say that "keeping score" per se is necessarily a bad thing, unless you mean trivial things, like who takes out the trash or which way the toilet paper goes. Also, if you mean holding grudges by that, yes, I agree that's probably not Real Love.... whatever that is.

As usual my response is way longer than I intended. But thanks for the input. It really helps me think about things.

How hard would it be for you guys to pick up and move once a year? You don't have kids, right? Maybe it's a lifestyle thing more than a money thing.

Yes, I think it could be a lifestyle thing. He's never owned a home until this one, which we bought 6+ years ago (and he's a coupla weeks away from 47).

I owned the last home we lived in. There are a lot of advantages in home ownership vs. rent (well, you probably already know that). It's hard to rent when you have 5 pets (when we moved here, we had 9!)

No kids for either of us, which is something I'm grateful for now. And right now I am quite willing to move (for a change!)

Who knows, maybe we'll both start feeling more restless in the future & move a lot more often. That is, if we're still together!

Thanks for the post, FreeDuck. I'm so glad so many people have posted....the more, the better!

Re: Problems: Marriage & Work: Equality?
Ok I got some quotes from your first post...



Now I have some thoughts...

Come on Boriskitten, this guy doesn't seem to be the right one. I personally think that is way better if both parties have an income and pay the bills together, but sometimes, if your partner is unemployed, you should support him/her meanwhile. That's what your husband should be doing right now.

You like sex more than he does???? That's much more common coming from a man... He doesn't know what he's got. Your attitude must make you a woman every man would like to be with. At least I just love women who're constantly asking for sex.

Question? How could you remain with him after the abortion issue. That particular situation just shows he didn't care about you in the first place. I think that if a man wants to, please excuse my french, stick it into that precious hole, he should be responsible and accept whatever the woman wants to do with her body, not threat her or anything.

Due to the posts I've read from you and to this particular issue you're describing, my thought is that you're too much of a woman for him...

Hey Rod, thanks for the input.

Thought 1: Right
Thought 2: Right
Thought 3: Right
Thought 4: Right

Why am I still with him? Actually, I don't think I've written at all about the good things in our relationship, so this thread's all skewed by my anger.

One thing about the abortion, he said these things afterwards, and was at least man enough to go with me, hold my hand during the procedure, etc. And I knew it was MY decision.

We went to a marital therapist afterwards, and his recommendation was: Divorce. I'm not sure why we didn't. But DH's comments didn't come out until we went to therapy.

Now I think the abortion was the right decision for me. I'm so glad it's finally been long enough for me to pretty much leave it in the past....more like forgetting than forgiving, though, in my case.

Why am I still with him? I wish I knew. I think I'm writing here to try and find out.

Thanks, Rod.

That's the reason of every writing... to find out. I'm glad you left the abortion issue in the past, but I also think the marital therapist was the right one. You guys should have divorced. Anyway, it's never late. Now, I'm kinda curious. If he is constantly asking for money to pay the bills, if he does not want to have sex as frequently as you do, and if you're questioning your marriage as if it was on it's last breath, what specific good things does it have to continue with it? What is what makes your marriage bearable?

Will wait for your answer sweetie pie :wink:

Wow, what a hard question! But thank you for asking, Rod, since I need to consider both the good and the bad. I've started this list, but probably forgot lots of things. Some of these are things I like about him; some are things I like about our marriage:

1) He has a huge penis.
2) Each really enjoys the other's sense of humor. Most people don't understand my (or his) sense of humor, and if they do understand it, they usually don't think it's funny.
3) He's very smart. We talk about things most couples don't: The nature of reality, for example, and effects of recent discoveries in Quantuum Physics on our perception of reality.
4) He's tall (6'5"). I'm tall. In heels, I tower over any man less than 6'0".
5) We're in complete agreement on politics.
6) He's pro-choice.
7) He's tidy, but not compulsively neat.
8) He plays bass guitar in a band most weekends. I usually don't attend, but when I do I think he's very sexy onstage.
9) He keeps his word. Always.
10) He does not lie to me.
11) He works hard.
12) He has a huge penis.
13) Friends & relatives (on both sides) often tell me how much he loves me, without any prompting from me. Recently, someone in a bar told me they'd never met a man so besotted with his own wife.
14) He loves animals & is always kind to them. He brings home skinny stray dogs every once in a while. We heal them and find homes for them.
15) He walks Boris Kitten on a leash.
16) We're both indifferent to material possessions. No big-screen TV, no fancy cars or house, etc.
17) We don't watch TV. We don't have cable or watch network TV (6 years now, and we're much happier for it).
18) We both like motorcycles.
19) We both love to read. We go to the library together about once every 2 weeks, and talk a lot about the things we read.
20) He gives money to people standing on street corners. I don't.
21) He loves his parents and is always kind to them.
22) All of my in-laws are wonderful, kind, loving people. Too bad, I can't even make nasty jokes about them.
23) He has a huge penis.
24) We both treasure privacy, and each is willing to give it to the other without recriminations.
25) Neither of us likes porn or uses it.
26) He tries to be nice to everyone.
27) He respects my opinions and listens to them, even if he doesn't agree with them.
28) He likes flat-chested women (like me).
29) He doesn't flirt with other women, ever. I don't flirt with other men, ever. We do not have opposite-sex friends.
30) We are both Atheists who do not believe in things which science says are impossible (like most new-age stuff). We enjoy making fun of religion (sorry, everyone).
31) He likes it when I call him my Little Fuzzy Bunny.
32) Until the last 6 months, we always held hands in public.
33) He once brought home an injured baby squirrel. Put it in a little box with towels, and put a warm lamp over it. Fed it water with an eyedropper.
34) He's more emotionally stable than I am. It's a good influence on me.
35) We both want to move to an even more rural area.
36) He doesn't go out and buy big stuff without talking to me first.
37) Did I mention he has a huge penis?

Thought of some more:

38) He'll dance with me even though he thinks he looks stupid doing it.
39) He thought he didn't like cats until he met me and my cats. For someone who doesn't like cats, he pets them an awful lot.
40) He pretends to be interested in my hobbies, and asks me to show him the things I make.
41) He always does his part, holds up his end, whatever you call it, in all things.
42) When I buy him clothes, he always puts them on as soon as I bring them home.
43) We like the same kinds of music, and dislike the same kinds of music.
44) We don't like little barky dogs.
45) He'll see a therapist with me if I ask.
46) He is not violent and has never physically threatened me, nor has he verbally abused me.
47) A woman slapped him once, and he didn't hit her back. He just stood there looking at her.
48) He talks to our pets in a little high voice, and makes up new names for them, like "Squambuses."
49) He calls all cats "Booskies."
50) We both think farts are funny.
51) I think his sweat smells good.

Keep the job, quit paying any part of the bills. Deposit your pay into a separate account. What's he going to do; sue? I don't think so.

Not a good arrangement, but maybe it'll bring him down to earth. It's not usually productive to demonstrate how little control husbands have over wives, but sometimes, you just have to.

Boriskitten--

Lot of "we's" in your Happy List.

I like that list... makes me reconsider some of my first assumptions.

There's the whole mystery of marriage, to me: That there can be so many good things right along with really bad things. Ought to be against the laws of nature or something.

Too many we's in the list, as Noddy 24 pointed out. However you did answer my question completely. You like his penis. LOL! I'm gonna be serious now, I think you're in love, plain and simple. If not you wouldn't have been able to specify so many things you like from him. Being in love it's great but it's always a risk while it can lead to idealize the other and become blind about a relationship. I think the issue you should be inquiring your pillow about at this time, in order for you to decide whether you stay with him or not, is if you've become blind about the relationship or had reach a point in which you just idealize him. I only have a particular question for you -sorry to bother you- if you two guys are so unmaterialistic -not in a philosophical sense of course- why do your problems start when it comes to money? Oh and one more: how long is his penis? Have you mesure it? It's just something I need to ask since you mentioned it so meny times.

Rod, Teehee! No, haven't measured it. But he wears a size 15 shoe. Hey, do guys know that penis size and shoe size often have something in common? Seems most women know about this little fact-let.

I wasn't sure whether Noddy meant the "We's" were a good thing or a bad thing. What say, Noddy? (I value her opinion, seeing she's practically always right on this forum.)

Is it possible to idealize someone you've lived with for 11 years? I guess it is, but it's a lot more difficult than idealizing someone you've just met. And yes, I think I am "crazy about him." I also think, based on others' comments to me, that he's "crazy about" me.

Actually, when we first met, I thought he was sort of dull and shallow. After 6 months or so I fell madly in love with him and I don't think I've ever fallen out of it. So, can you love someone like crazy and divorce them because you think they're not working hard enough? Well, I guess so.

And yes, it seems sort of silly to fight about money when money isn't all that important to either of you. Not that I don't care at all about money, but when I made a whole lot of it I was no happier than I am making practically none. Same with him, who once made many times what he makes now. I think we've both learned that more money does not equal more happiness. Free time is worth a lot to both of us.

I think lots of people think money will solve all kinds of problems, and it just doesn't. He seems more stuck on "equal effort to supporting the household" than money itself. Like, if I'm not working, I should spend all the hours he is working cleaning the house or studying or whatever.

So confused.

I KNOW this isn't true. My hubby has small feet....but that's where his shortcomings end.

Ya, just a legend, probably....but a good one...just happens to be true in this case.

I have found that tall men usually have bigger things than short ones, but there are always exceptions. Once had a guy who wore a size 9 shoe, only 5'9" tall, with a huge wanker, used it daily together.

Boriskitten--

I was just commenting that your list had a number of "we's"--for a good part of the time you obviously think of yourself as part of a couple.

Thanks for the kind words.

That shoe-penis story is a complete mith. Such as the one that argues that midgets have huge dicks.