20
   

Evolutionry/religious nonsense

 
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 05:08 am
@Leadfoot,
Good try at baseless accusations. I certainly attacked THE MESSAGE. If youd critically read my post I asked you about how Irreducible Complexity etc constitutes a "Mountain of Evidence"?????
You are apparently easily impressed by irrelevant graphics, I am not
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 05:12 am
@Setanta,
heh heh. To many of them, "Evidence" is a statement of incredulity and thats all they've got.

I think where his argument is going is that, since we werent there, we cant know, just like evolution was witness-free.
0 Replies
 
Leadfoot
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 01:49 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
[at]tack of what?? same old **** that makes an argument out of a negative assertion. Wheres there any evidence at all??

I think youve not been looking very hard . The crap that Discovery prints and posts is evidence-free tripe. Youve already forgotten about Irreducible complexity or specified information?
WEDGIE DOCUMENT
When you asked whether I'd forgotten about irreducible complexity I thought you meant your invitation (before Christmas) to debate the subject. I came back and suggested the grand daddy example of it - abiogenesis of the first self reproducing organism capable of evolution.
Your response was just another rant against DI.

If that's the best you can do, never mind.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 04:09 pm
@Leadfoot,
feel better about yourself? ya old coot
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 04:57 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:
The surrounds of Stonehenge contained villages and palisades similar to others of late neolithic and bronze nd iron ages. Technology cpmparisons make an argument that whoever lived an worked at Stonehenge were similar to other humans in the various "Doggerland" and more likely , pre-keltic cultures(I believe the term has been the Windmill Hill people). I beleieve they also have DNA amd mDNA from the residents of the burial spots and these are similar to nativist haplogroups seen in the population of todays areas in UK and Wales.


You and I agree that there is a pattern in the evidence that is similar to more modern sights where we do know they were built by humans. So a reasonable person follows the pattern and assumes humans built Stonehenge. Or . . .

I think a reasonable person could argue there is a possibility that an alien race built Stonehenge and other extremely ancient large structures like the Sphinx, because it is questionable if the ancient cultures had the technology. Or humans were more technologically advanced in extremely ancient times and the technology was lost similar to what happened during the Dark Ages only in a more extreme way.

The latter alternative (which is reasonable because it solves a possible technology problem) strays from the pattern we have established in archaeology of linear human technological advancement from primitive to technological.

Both alternatives are being presented today but one is presented in mainstream science and one is on Cable TV shows like Ancient Aliens.

Both seem reasonable so why is only one getting any acceptance into mainstream science? Would Galileo have been limited to the History Channel and blogs if he were around today.

I think I've presented a reasonable argument that evolution by natural selection is an algorithm operating in hardware through an operating system. The pattern follows today that all operating algorithms are created and operated according to rules and hardware built by intelligent beings.

Why are you so quick to follow the pattern with Stonehenge but not with all the more ancient order we observe in the world and the universe?

If somebody wanted to do research on Ancient Aliens or a more advanced ancient human culture or teach it as a possible explanation in high school would you fight to stop them like you do ID?
Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 05:04 pm
Got any evidence for your "aliens" bullsh*t? Are you familiar with Occam's Razor? Monumental architecture does require high technological development. All the tools which were necessary to build Stonehenge have been found, and they were made from antler, bone and stone. The most monumental thing here is your ignorance.
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 05:10 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Absent any evidence of the intervention of aliens from space, the only conclusions about Stonehenge are that it was built by humans, or by other animals. Leaning only very lightly on Occam's Razor, scientists choose to believe that it was built by humans. Anyone claiming otherwise is making an extraordinary claim, and therefore will have to provide extraordinary evidence. Of course, as is always the case with the god-botherers, their claims are wonderfully evidence-free.
If, the entire universe is the hardware and the laws of physics are the operating system that the algorithm of natural selection is running in, then the creator of that system must be similar to intelligent beings we are observing creating algorithms today, just a lot larger in ability and scope.

Since we are living inside the system and are part of it, and the size and scope of the system is far above our abilities, it seems reasonable that we might have a hard time relating to the designer of the system.

Occam's razor leads to simplicity. If there was only God and His ideas before the universe came into being you can't get any simpler than that. Stonehenge is the evidence for human creating. The universe and us are evidence for something bigger than humans creating.
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 05:11 pm
@brianjakub,
usually we follow evidence. So fr weve got pictirals in temples and in tombs of MEN constructing temples and all sorts of gizmos in EGypt. I think that research of artifqct and their pqtterning nd usage hqve pretty well been honestly done and these provide some damned good circumstantial evidence. WHEREAS all e have for a reasonable belief in aliens giving everyone a hand are a couple of books mostly by guys who have incredibly fertile imagination and NO training at all. Guys like von Deniken have been milking the "Ancient Astronaut stories " and doing it with a great deal of entertainment that many people will believe that **** nd NEVER ever ask the questions as to what evidence does this provide. Same the with golbeki tepi and puma punku.

As SET stated quite clearly, Its not up to me to show why I DONT believe as you, its your job to convincingly make your case. Thats the way it works.
SO, from hereon, any strong cases made for ancient aliens giving humans a kick start is up to you not me.

Setanta
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 05:16 pm
@brianjakub,
brianjakub wrote:
I think I've presented a reasonable argument that evolution by natural selection is an algorithm operating in hardware through an operating system.


Bullsh*t--all you've done is offer such an overlay on the actual data available, and not even a plausible argument.

Quote:
The pattern follows today that all operating algorithms are created and operated according to rules and hardware built by intelligent beings.


Nonsense--you've come up with a feeble analogy, which doesn't work, and now you're trying to suggest that your case is proven, and in the final analysis, to lay the ground work for a claim of an "intelligence" which has "guided" evolution. In short, you want to introduce your imaginary friend superstition.

Those who are not steeped in ignorance can learn or already know the evidence of how Stonehenge was constructed, and only idiots who rely on television and youtube would believe that there is any question that it was constructed by humans.

This is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to support your IDiotic thesis about the origin of species, and yet another example of the lengths that the god-botherers will go to in their deceitful attempt to establish theistic creation.

Come back with a knock-down argument, and evidence for your imaginary friend, and you might have a case. As long as you attempt to deceitfully propose an intelligence, which you won't admit is your imaginary friend, and come up with hilariously idiotic propositions such as this drivel you've been posting about Stonehenge, you just continue to make a fool of yourself, and to lie about your true underlying motive.
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 05:21 pm
@farmerman,
Quote:

As SET stated quite clearly, Its not up to me to show why I DONT believe as you, its your job to convincingly make your case. Thats the way it works.
SO, from hereon, any strong cases made for ancient aliens giving humans a kick start is up to you not me
Brian Jakub:
Quote:
If, the entire universe is the hardware and the laws of physics are the operating system that the algorithm of natural selection is running in, then the creator of that system must be similar to intelligent beings we are observing creating algorithms today, just a lot larger in ability and scope.

Since we are living inside the system and are part of it, and the size and scope of the system is far above our abilities, it seems reasonable that we might have a hard time relating to the designer of the system.

Occam's razor leads to simplicity. If there was only God and His ideas before the universe came into being you can't get any simpler than that. Stonehenge is the evidence for human creating. The universe and us are evidence for something bigger than humans creating.
0 Replies
 
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 05:56 pm
@Setanta,
Quote:
Bullsh*t--all you've done is offer such an overlay on the actual data available, and not even a plausible argument
Quote:
Nonsense--you've come up with a feeble analogy, which doesn't work, and now you're trying to suggest that your case is proven, and in the final analysis, to lay the ground work for a claim of an "intelligence" which has "guided" evolution. In short, you want to introduce your imaginary friend superstition
Quote:
This is nothing more than a pathetic attempt to support your IDiotic thesis about the origin of species, and yet another example of the lengths that the god-botherers will go to in their deceitful attempt to establish theistic creation.
According to gallup 69% of people with postgraduate degrees disagree with you. I think these are reasonable logical people being polled.
Quote:
Come back with a knock-down argument, and evidence for your imaginary friend, and you might have a case. As long as you attempt to deceitfully propose an intelligence, which you won't admit is your imaginary friend, and come up with hilariously idiotic propositions such as this drivel you've been posting about Stonehenge, you just continue to make a fool of yourself, and to lie about your true underlying motive.
Jesus stepped into the algorithm 2000 years ago and said I am the Living Word of God (algorithm of God). Everything was created by me nothing was created without me.(creator of the hardware and operating system). Then the word became flesh and dwelt among us. (The writer of the algorithm wrote himself into it).
Quote:
Most adults—not quite six in 10—believe Jesus was God (56%), while about one-quarter say he was only a religious or spiritual leader like Mohammed or the Buddha (26%). The remaining one in six say they aren’t sure whether Jesus was divine (18%).

Millennials are the only generation among whom fewer than half believe Jesus was God (48%). About one-third of young adults (35%) say instead that Jesus was merely a religious or spiritual leader, while 17 percent aren’t sure what he was.

In each older generation, the belief in Jesus as divine is more common—55 percent of Gen-Xers, 58 percent of Boomers and nearly two-thirds of Elders (62%) believe Jesus was God.


The only person to claim to be the creator with any credibility is Jesus. The evidence says he fits the bill and over half the American population agrees. You want to talk about the evidence? If you want to talk about a person that lived 2000 years ago the evidence will be only as good as 2000 year old evidence and what ever can be tied to science and natural law.
cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 08:32 pm
@brianjakub,
The only designer is evolution. 🤓
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
ekename
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 08:54 pm
@brianjakub,
Quote:
The evidence says he fits the bill and over half the American population agrees.


Prove it's not all folderol

Struth almighty from a poll

VOTE NOW FOR:



OR:

jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 09:00 pm
@cicerone imposter,
cicerone imposter wrote:

The only designer is evolution. 🤓
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution


What drives evolution I think might be the question?
brianjakub
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 09:14 pm
@cicerone imposter,
The only designer you can observe from your seat is the system you are living in, but who built the system.
0 Replies
 
ekename
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 09:16 pm
Here comes the story of infinity
The man the brain dead call divinity
For something that he never done
Put on a pedestal but one
Time he woulda been an imaginary being

jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 09:20 pm
@ekename,
jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 09:32 pm
@ekename,

0 Replies
 
ekename
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 09:33 pm
@jerlands,
The people came and listened
Some of them came and prayed
Others gave fish and bread away, yes they did
Down in Galilee,
Down in Galilee.
Young gods smiled upon the crowd
Their music being born of love
Children danced night and day
Religion was being born
Down in Galilee

jerlands
 
  1  
Reply Tue 2 Jan, 2018 09:47 pm
@ekename,
Cool
0 Replies
 
 

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