10
   

2015 vs 2017

 
 
Reply Sat 21 Oct, 2017 12:06 pm
(Inspired by a comic that used gendered insults that I wouldn’t so here is my own version):

2015 - “politics isn’t important enough to me to make uncomfortable interpersonal interactions worth it”

2017 - “reversing the current political winds is more important than this relationship and our comfort level in this discussion is to me”

The floor fell out from under us here. I sincerely did not believe that this country was capable of electing a candidate whose obvious dispositional deficiencies reduce the stature of the entire nation on the global stage.

“The world doesn’t respect us anymore” used to be mainly an empty partisan slur meaning “I don’t respect this president”, but Trump really is a national embarrassment on an entirely different level that is shared by reasonable Republicans and Democrats alike. The sane in the GOP know that short term win for their side is going to come with longer term consequences for their party and embracing the nativist and anti-globalist forces is going to have lasting consequences for the party that has traditionally been at the forefront of free trade policy.

The sad thing is, that the political conversation in America has long become so partisan that there is no appropriate language to use to describe where we are. When Democrats decried each and every Republican that came before Trump as bigots, even ones like Romney and Bush who have stuck their necks out to speak out against Trump and made clear they are fundamentally not so, we all no longer have any language reserved for true bigotry.

The national conversation has long become so hyperbolic that each and every opposing candidate was decried as being “unfit to serve” and this nearly exclusive focus on negative partisanship opened the doors to us all having no appropriate reactions to when someone truly unfit comes along. We need to support the reasonable people across the political aisles from us for this reason.
 
oralloy
 
  -4  
Reply Sun 22 Oct, 2017 04:28 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:
The floor fell out from under us here. I sincerely did not believe that this country was capable of electing a candidate whose obvious dispositional deficiencies reduce the stature of the entire nation on the global stage.

I think our international stature is fine. When Trump nukes North Korea into oblivion (after they nuke us first) it'll give all of our enemies something to think about when they daydream about harming us.


Robert Gentel wrote:
“The world doesn’t respect us anymore” used to be mainly an empty partisan slur meaning “I don’t respect this president”, but Trump really is a national embarrassment on an entirely different level that is shared by reasonable Republicans and Democrats alike. The sane in the GOP know that short term win for their side is going to come with longer term consequences for their party and embracing the nativist and anti-globalist forces is going to have lasting consequences for the party that has traditionally been at the forefront of free trade policy.

I certainly don't agree with the protectionist policies, but there are some strong points to Trump too. When he came into office he quickly signed legislation putting an end to Obama's devastating executive orders on guns. Those horrible attempts to deprive millions of disabled people of their gun rights are at an end. The law even preempts future presidents from being able to make similar executive orders.

Then Trump ensured that Justice Scalia would be replaced by someone who will vote to enforce the Constitution.

And now we're waiting for the SHARE Act to be passed by Congress. That's a very important pro-gun bill that will fix a lot of problems with current gun regulations.

I can't say that I agree with the protectionism, but when I look at the big picture Trump has been pretty good for America so far.
farmerman
 
  2  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2017 04:47 am
@oralloy,
"...when the only tool you have is a hammer, all the world's problems are a nail..".
edgarblythe
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2017 04:54 am
The day I realized G W Bush was being treated as a perfectly viable candidate for high office by media and half of the public, I told myself, "This opens the gate for anybody at all to get elected." So I am not really surprised to see a President Trump.
0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  1  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2017 05:12 am
@farmerman,
I understand the meaning of the saying. But I don't understand how it applies to what I said.
0 Replies
 
hightor
 
  5  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2017 05:15 am
The right has waged an unceasing campaign to stoke fear and resentment in the electorate since the end of the Second World War. Taft-Hartley and the Red Scare destroyed organized labor as an effective force for social progress.
Meanwhile social issues were seen as a great way to peel off large chunks of working class voters from the old New Deal coalition. Hard hats battled hippies and Republicans beamed with pride. Wedge issues became to right's favorite tactic. No wonder the country is so divided.
oralloy
 
  -3  
Reply Mon 23 Oct, 2017 07:59 am
@hightor,
hightor wrote:
Meanwhile social issues were seen as a great way to peel off large chunks of working class voters from the old New Deal coalition. Hard hats battled hippies and Republicans beamed with pride. Wedge issues became to right's favorite tactic. No wonder the country is so divided.

That's the fault of the Democrats far more than it is the fault of the Republicans.

If the Democrats did not choose to be wrong on guns, there would have been no opportunity for the Republicans to win votes by being right on guns.

I would be deliriously happy if I had the opportunity to vote for a party that will allow me to have decent health care and the right to have guns.

Shame on the Democrats for not being that party.
najmelliw
 
  3  
Reply Tue 24 Oct, 2017 09:55 am
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:

I would be deliriously happy if I had the opportunity to vote for a party that will allow me to have decent health care and the right to have guns.


'...that will allow me to have decent health care and the right to have guns, so I won't have to pay through the nose when I accidentally shoot myself in the foot.'
0 Replies
 
Robert Gentel
 
  5  
Reply Tue 24 Oct, 2017 12:27 pm
@oralloy,
You have a weird way of combining both fantastical pessimism (predicting US and NK will exchange nukes) with fantastical optimism (thinking this will be a good thing and "give all our enemies something to think about"). It's like we don't inhabit the same timeline.
cameronleon
 
  -3  
Reply Tue 24 Oct, 2017 12:35 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Quote:
The floor fell out from under us here. I sincerely did not believe that this country was capable of electing a candidate whose obvious dispositional deficiencies reduce the stature of the entire nation on the global stage.


You must thanks president Trump and kiss his big toe thousands of times.

Review how Mrs. Hillary Clinton has reacted after losing the elections.

She went against women, blacks, everybody blaming them for her failure. She even wrote her complaints in a book.

Look, you are so lucky, so blessed that she wasn't elected president.

Now, after you see her how she reacts just by losing elections, think about having her in power and have a small stumble stone in her path.

That woman should turn crazy like she is right now.

Look, God is great, and in God we trust.

Thanks God for impeding Mrs. Clinton to win the elections.

And by the way, I heard that God has a Russian accent when he inspires his servants to write in these forums... ha ha ha ha....

0 Replies
 
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 24 Oct, 2017 01:11 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:
with fantastical optimism (thinking this will be a good thing and "give all our enemies something to think about").

I'm not thinking of undergoing nuclear attack as a good thing. But if someone does nuke some of our cities, I fully expect our president to respond with a degree of murderous savagery that utterly horrifies the bulk of humanity.

My seeming acceptance of the nuclear onslaught comes from my perception that it cannot be avoided. I don't see much point in helplessly wringing my hands over something that can't be avoided.

If you can't prevent someone from attacking you, the next best thing is making sure that your response deters subsequent attacks.

I suppose I sound a bit like Ender Wiggans as a child.
Robert Gentel
 
  4  
Reply Tue 24 Oct, 2017 03:26 pm
@oralloy,
oralloy wrote:
My seeming acceptance of the nuclear onslaught comes from my perception that it cannot be avoided.


It is precisely this perception that I am saying is not grounded in reality. It definitely can be avoided, and will be.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 24 Oct, 2017 05:53 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:
It definitely can be avoided, and will be.

I don't see it. I think North Korea will keep developing their nukes until they can strike American cities reliably, and then they will invade South Korea. When we protect South Korea I think they will nuke us.

Missile defense might help. I'm not counting on 100% success though.
Robert Gentel
 
  2  
Reply Tue 24 Oct, 2017 06:25 pm
@oralloy,
They aren't developing them for the purpose of attacking us, they are developing them as a deterrent. The cinematic scenarios are possible but are exceedingly unlikely. Far from an inevitability in the timeline that I occupy.
oralloy
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 24 Oct, 2017 06:43 pm
@Robert Gentel,
Robert Gentel wrote:
They aren't developing them for the purpose of attacking us, they are developing them as a deterrent.

As a deterrent against us protecting South Korea when they invade and try to destroy South Korea.

Their deterrence will fail. We will intervene to protect South Korea despite their nuclear deterrence.

Then the nuclear war happens.


Robert Gentel wrote:
The cinematic scenarios are possible but are exceedingly unlikely. Far from an inevitability in the timeline that I occupy.

If by cinematic scenarios you mean the nuclear war, you are miscalculating the resolve of North Korea's leader.
0 Replies
 
ehBeth
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Oct, 2017 06:56 pm
@Robert Gentel,
https://monocle.com/radio/shows/the-globalist/1535/

Quote:
15 September 2017
Episode 1535

As North Korea fires another ballistic missile over Japan, we ask our Tokyo bureau chief what's next in terms of the tense situation between the two nations. Plus: what should we expect from Russia’s annual wargames?


Chapter 1
4 minutes
High tension
Monocle’s Tokyo bureau chief, Fiona Wilson, describes Japan’s reaction to North Korea's latest missile test.


not too long interesting listen (play it in the background while working on something somewhat mindless)
0 Replies
 
Finn dAbuzz
 
  1  
Reply Tue 24 Oct, 2017 06:59 pm
@Robert Gentel,
You've been busy of late
0 Replies
 
 

Related Topics

Obama '08? - Discussion by sozobe
Let's get rid of the Electoral College - Discussion by Robert Gentel
McCain's VP: - Discussion by Cycloptichorn
McCain is blowing his election chances. - Discussion by McGentrix
Food Stamp Turkeys - Discussion by H2O MAN
The 2008 Democrat Convention - Discussion by Lash
Snowdon is a dummy - Discussion by cicerone imposter
GAFFNEY: Whose side is Obama on? - Discussion by gungasnake
 
  1. Forums
  2. » 2015 vs 2017
Copyright © 2017 MadLab, LLC :: Terms of Service :: Privacy Policy :: Page generated in 0.03 seconds on 11/21/2017 at 05:58:31