Friends or Foes... you be the judge.

Saintabby--

Welcome to A2K.

Obviously you were this woman's backup for New Year's Eve plans. If nothing better came through, you would guarantee that she would not spend the gala evening alone.

Something "better" came through--and you are spending New Year's Eve without her--and with the information that any man is "better" than you are.

At least she's clear in her priorities--as well as being ruthless.

She could be a friend, but unless you want to be the Back Up Possibility in all situations, don't consider her a close friend.

Happy New Year. You can't be disillusioned that way again in 2005 unless you cooperate.

Infuriating... but so true. I hate knowing that I was a "back-up". Makes me feel so cheap!

saintabby- Welcome to A2K!

Why in the world do YOU feel cheap? It is your "friend" who is behaving like an ass.

People who have been used are entitled to rage and resentment--not guilt.

Don't get me wrong- I know she's behaving like an ass... but it still doesn't make me feel very great that I was the back-up, that's all I was saying. Hey, I went out last night and had a great time. She can figure out her own mixed up life. I know I've been there for her when she needs me. I know I totally "took her back" when she decided to move home. I'm just not sure it's worth it to me to do that anymore after all I've been through with the whole ridiculous scene.

Answer to unasked question:

Yes, some friendships erode either because of outside circumstances or because one of the friends neglects to keep the friendship alive and flourishing.

As in any other relationship, a friendship cannot be maintained by just one of the parties. Friendship takes two.

Obviously, you feel that she took you totally for granted, using you and your plans to fill the void if a man didn't come through. This isn't the first time she's done it to you and you know that it won't be the last. I know the feeling. It drives me insane to know that someone that I've put out for, emotionally, has no appreciation for my efforts.
I'd cool that 'friendship' if I were you, be as aloof and non-responsive as she's been with you (and take great pleasure imagining her confusion and hurt feelings), and find people that I could depend on to bestow the title of friend upon.
She's hurt you once. Shame on her. If you let her hurt you again, shame on you.

Is it possible the relationship with the loser is abusive? It's possible that no matter how much she knows she should break away from him and wants to, she's trapped in a relationship with him that she can't break away from. If she has a history of being emotionally needy she might be unable to summons the grit to get away from him.

I'm glad you had fun last night. You shouldn't sit around waiting for a friend who has a history of not following through for you and chances are she'll repeat the pattern over and over.



It just is for some people. I'm guessing she wants to try to keep everyone happy and doesn't have it in her to say anything negative until the last possible second. My crystal ball adds it all up to low self esteem on her part.

Only you can decide if the history of the good times you had before and the empathy you might feel for her current situation is enough to keep yourself in circle. What do you get from the relationship?

Re: Friends or Foes... you be the judge.


Abby.......it sounds like you had a wonderful friendship. Generally when two friends spend as much time together as you two......there is a strong bond.

There are a few things that bother me in your post.



Key word Abby ....controlling. It would appear that she needs his permission to do things. Men like this can sometimes be so controlling that you need their permission to even go to the bathroom. Or at least if you go on your own.......you better do it in record time or he will grill you as to what you were doing in there. :wink: That may seem silly to some of you who are reading this.......but trust me, it's just a small example of how bad it can be to live with someone who does not love you, but instead OWNS you...CONTROLS you. Can't live without you.



This scares me. If I am reading that correctly your "best" friend hardly ever called you...much less came to visit you. I will get back to this one later.



The guy was a loser from the start. I get a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach when I wonder what she's not telling you. Other than the obvious fact that he is a controlling loser.



Aloof all week. Inside herself. Seeming indifferent? With no real explanation. Oh God.

_____________________________

Hi Abby..........my name is Brooklyn. I am a recovering female of domestic violence. And not unlike a recovering person in AA.....it is a lifelong journey.

To outline your post as to why it bothers me so much......in a nutshell....you just described a friend who no longer is herself. A friend who has always been there for you prior to this man coming into her life. A friend who is unhappy with this relationship.........yet is still in it. A friend who obviously is emotionally abused by this controlling person in her life, who has her in another state. A place where you truely do not know what is going on with her. A place where her silence has been felt as indifference on your end. You say you just don't understand. Perhaps she does not want you to. Perhaps, Abby, her world is so dark that she can no longer see the light. Perhaps she is too ashamed to allow anyone to know. And perhaps she has gotten good at hiding it.

Abby........ I wish pm's work. I don't have enough posts to be able to pm you a link that I would like you to see. If O'Comm Bill could help me or someone else on the forum that understands what the link is I wish for her to have.........I would be eternally grateful.

There are many places to receive help if your friend needs it. There are also many places for family and friends to become educated about the signs.

I was born and raised in a very peaceful, loving, and calm environment. I was full of life and very high spirited. Drilled my way through college in record time. (graduated high school early too.) By the time I was 20...not only did I have my degree...I bought a home (with parents co-signing), I had a new job that paid well, and I took on a new boyfriend. He was sweet, kind, caring, very popular and very outgoing. NOT a classic abuser ??? I just missed the signs, that's all. He was always an abuser. I just took the outpouring of love and attention he gave to me ....and I overlooked the obvious. Within a couple of years my eyes no longer sparkled. I no longer communicated with friends and family. I no longer loved life. I no longer lived life. Before I could get myself out of the situation.......I was carrying his child.

Abby..........perhaps your friend is not being physically abused. But my gutt tells me that.....perhaps she is. If you have not visited her lately please make plans to.

Nothing is impossible to change in someones life if they so desire the change.

~Brooklyn

Wow, thanks all for replying! Amazing- I didn't think I'd get this much feedback. I love feedback.... allright, let me dig in...

JB-- thanks, hon! I did have fun that night!! And a big emphatic "yes" on the low self-esteem comment. You hit the nail on the head with that one.

Noddy-- you're totally right on. Love your no-nonsense and truthful remarks. You've got a great style. It does take 2 to be in ANY relationship-- and no, there hasn't been 2 ppl working in this one for quite some time. That's why I'm struggling to figure out whether or not I stay... which leads me to everyone else's question:::

I struggle with this whole relationship BECAUSE I know the relationship she's in with this loser is terrible. Because I KNOW he is emotionally abusive.... I don't know if he's physically abusive-- she's never told me that- and if he was, I don't think she would tell me anyway b/c she knows how strongly I'd want to kill him.

Brooke-- I so appreciated your story. Thank you so much for sharing it with me. I wish she'd take heed in your words, but she won't listen. I guess, like you compared AA with being a victim of DV, ppl won't listen until they're ready to hear it or until they're ready to get help. (I actually work with addicts, so I am exposed to this quite a bit.) And, see, this is why I've been there for her-- because I want her to know she's got a place to come home to if and when things get so wicked bad....

I didn't want to push her out of my life for fear that she'd think she can't come back because she doesn't have anyone anymore.

Kind of makes the situation a little more difficult, right? But am I coddling? That's the question.

saintabby--

Give her room--and an open door and a shoulder to cry on but...

DO NOT BUILD YOUR LIFE AROUND HER.

Right now, she's a charity case, not a friend. There is nothing wrong with having a charity case on your calling list--as long as she's not using you to the point where your own life is diminished.

Oh, I totally agree. If I was being codependent then my life would revolve around this person... and it doesn't, believe me. Though I find it hard to leave the proverbial door open when I get dissappointed so much by her changing plans and not following through. Maybe I'll just leave the window open? That way it's not so loud when it slams shut....

I just think it's a mindset that I need to be in-- to KNOW that she may not follow through. But then I beg the question-- is that REALLY a friendship????

I used to have a friend like that. It was complicated because she was a girl and I was kind of in love with her. With a friend who is a girl, I would have to agree with everybody elses advice.

This is wierd because I don't see this kind of thing happening with two guy friends. I would probably tell a guy friend of mine to grow a pair or just give in to his controlling significant other. Or if they were happy together and it was taking away from our activities, then i'd just be happy for him.

I'm sorry for your friend, I imagine she's not in a good situation, and she's hurting you with her ways of dealing with it (or Not dealing with it).

But I wish I had such a good friend as you! Yes, I say, leave the window open so she can climb in at 2 AM when she's finally had enough. She'll need you then more than ever. And sadly, I think this WILL happen.....the only question is WHEN.

Still, her problems don't give her the right to treat you poorly. You can let her know that she hurt you in a gentle way, so she remembers there are other people's feelings invovled. ("Hey, it kind of hurt my feelings when you...") Who knows, a little comment like that might just bust her barriers and she'll spill it all.

Just because she's hurt you doesn't mean you should break all contact with her. But it also doesn't mean she has a right to hurt you because she's hurting. A loose tie with you is better than no tie at all.

Sounds to me like you're handling this REALLY well, better than I ever would! Congrats on that, you sound like a great friend.

Thanks--- I actually made up my mind about what I'm gonna do-- or better yet, what I have done.

Two nights ago I wrote her a quick email-- said that I was hurt by what she did-- not that she wanted to go hang out with her friends, but that she waited 4 hours before we were supposed to get together to tell me she wasn't coming. I also said that I will continue to leave the door open for her, but it is getting harder for me to do every time I feel it gets slammed shut. I did tell her that I believe she's taking advantage of our friendship and my patience, for that matter, but that I am willing to stay in it as long as she knows that it hurts when she does this. I am human and I can only take so much crapola, even from my good friend.

I actually presented it to my therapist the other night (I'm gettin' my money's worth!!) and she basically said in not so many words that she thinks she may be getting physically abused and ran down the whole list of shelters, etc for me-- which I know b/c I am a counselor too-- but it kind of hit home with me that she is abused, be it emotionally or physically, and I need to recognize the situation for what it is. It's serious stuff. It's weird how you don't see it at first, but once you do, there's no going back.

And I also think that she stayed out there to be with him, because I beleive that if he said he'd change, she'd stay with him. That's the kind of hold he has over her. ANd it's sad b/c you don't want to see your friend go down like that, but I will resume my stance of "caring detachment" for self-preservation's sake, and wait for the other shoe to drop... cause it will. It's only a matter of time.

Thanks all for your caring words and advice and stories. I appreciated them all!