Slappy, I know your behavior and character are beyond reproach.
And I'm not saying that all men, salesmen, tradesmen, ____men are this way. But I do think some of them are.
I don't think that "nicer" is necessary but I do think that good salespeople realize that the woman has huge influence on every buying decision couples make.
I knew a girl who fell into one of those "we give credit to anyone the law allows" car dealers. I think she paid 27% interest on the loan. That is, until she defaulted on it.
Not saying that at all, Slappy. Everyone gets ripped off now and then.
I hear you...there's d-bags out there.
Just letting you know it's not only females getting ripped.
I think women can be harder to sell too, because a lot of times they act either too careful/defensive, or like they're on a high horse for being a decision maker. WOW! It's 2004, bitch, you can vote!
There is a program on National Public Radio called Cartalk with a couple of Down East Boys, who call themselves "Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers." A few years back, they sent a man to several dozen Boston-area auto repair shops with a car with a specific problem, and a script of how to describe the problem to the mechanic. Then they sent a woman with the same car, same problem, same script. I believe they said this represented all of the auto repair shops in the Boston metropolitan area. In all but three of the shops, the women were quoted a price from two to five times higher than the price quoted to the man who appeared with the same car, same problem. In all but two of them, the women were told that there were problems which needed repair which did not in fact exist (remember, the car was prepped by two mechanics before it was sent out); in one shop, and one shop only, did they get the same advice and the same quote. If anyone here is sufficiently familiar with Car Talk to dig up the story, it would be quite interesting--i'm just goin' on memory of the two guys talkin' about it.
I've worked construction as a painter, and later as a cable-puller/installer of security devices. In both cases, it was just axiomatic that the customer is always wrong. My friend and i were pulling cable for an alarm system in a new building once, and people kept givin' me the evil eye, and walkin' away when i tried to talk to them--i was getting pretty damned mad. Then my buddy pointed out that i was still wearing my contractor's badge for the customer's facility (a hospital), and very likely, all the other guys (and women) on the job site thought i was a rep of the customer. It was a big "Doh!" moment. I took the badge off, and everyone and their attitude changed.
Just as doctors and lawyers have their own special languages and a deeply ingrained contempt for the supplicant for their holy wisdom, trades people play their own game. The name of the game is "I know and you don't, and I'm gonna make you pay through the nose." That women become the object of rip-off attempts more than men simply reflects the reality of a society that still tries to put people into boxes based upon broad (and incorrect) stereotypes. Mechanics are just as likely to do this as anyone else--and just as likely as anyone else to try to put the screws to women more than to men.
Oh! I'm a big 'cartalk' fan. Those guys are hilarious, and you can get great "insider" car advice.
Thank you, Sentanta, for providing some factual backup to the observations of all of these women. I would very much like to see/hear that report.
You also hit on one of the things I really hate -- jargon. The minute someone lapses into it my mind just goes blank and I tune in to lovely little thought of my own. That technical baloney should be saved only for when speaking to someone in the same field and even then it is usually boring beyond belief.
Setanta wrote:There is a program on National Public Radio called Cartalk with a couple of Down East Boys, who call themselves "Click and Clack, the Tappet Brothers." A few years back, they sent a man to several dozen Boston-area auto repair shops with a car with a specific problem, and a script of how to describe the problem to the mechanic. Then they sent a woman with the same car, same problem, same script. I believe they said this represented all of the auto repair shops in the Boston metropolitan area. In all but three of the shops, the women were quoted a price from two to five times higher than the price quoted to the man who appeared with the same car, same problem. In all but two of them, the women were told that there were problems which needed repair which did not in fact exist (remember, the car was prepped by two mechanics before it was sent out); in one shop, and one shop only, did they get the same advice and the same quote. If anyone here is sufficiently familiar with Car Talk to dig up the story, it would be quite interesting--i'm just goin' on memory of the two guys talkin' about it.
I've worked construction as a painter, and later as a cable-puller/installer of security devices. In both cases, it was just axiomatic that the customer is always wrong. My friend and i were pulling cable for an alarm system in a new building once, and people kept givin' me the evil eye, and walkin' away when i tried to talk to them--i was getting pretty damned mad. Then my buddy pointed out that i was still wearing my contractor's badge for the customer's facility (a hospital), and very likely, all the other guys (and women) on the job site thought i was a rep of the customer. It was a big "Doh!" moment. I took the badge off, and everyone and their attitude changed.
Just as doctors and lawyers have their own special languages and a deeply ingrained contempt for the supplicant for their holy wisdom, trades people play their own game. The name of the game is "I know and you don't, and I'm gonna make you pay through the nose." That women become the object of rip-off attempts more than men simply reflects the reality of a society that still tries to put people into boxes based upon broad (and incorrect) stereotypes. Mechanics are just as likely to do this as anyone else--and just as likely as anyone else to try to put the screws to women more than to men.
That's interesting - I was wondering if there was any actual data around - I thought there might be, somewhere.
Boom, your jargon remarks go the heart of something i really hate. If you went to the doctor, and he told you you have a head cold, and then presented you with a bill for $100, you'd be furious. But if he tells you you have rhinitis aggravated by pharyngitis, you'll pony up quick, and ask him to write you a scrip . . .
In the security equipment and systems industry, there are different terms used for motion detectors. A motion detector which opens or unlocks a door usually operates with passive infrared. This is how the door opens for you at the supermarket. There is a microchip in the motion detector which detects significant changes of state in the infrared, and upon the detection of such a change of state, it sends a signal which trips a relay. That relay sends a signal to the electric door-opening mechanism. So, people in the industry usually say PIR when they mean that type of motion detector, or exit PIR, as these are usually used to unlock a door in a secured area. You need a badge with an electronic strip, or you need to know the code to enter to unlock the door from the "non-secure" side, but if you are leaving, the PIR will unlock the door as you approach it from the secure side.
However, motion detectors which are parts of intruder alarm systems come in various different types, depending upon the degree of resolution and sensitivity intended. Microwave (i.e., radar) is very common, and a very low power microwave motion detector can cover quite a large area. These are usually called "motions" in the security equipment industry, because they are specifically being intalled to detect motion. The exit PIR's are not actually detecting motion, just changes of state in the infrared in the area they are viewing.
But if you want to sell somebody an alarm system worth many thousands of dollars, and retailing, installed, for tens of thousands of dollars, the ancient human tradition of jargon kicks in. You don't talk about motion detectors and the different types, and how they work and what they do. You talk about PIR's and REX PIR's (request to exit passive infrared, for unlocking doors from inside a secure area), and microwave motions, tremor alarms (a very simple and inexpensive device referred to within the business, but never in front of the customer, as a "glass break"--it detects tremors in the glass surface to which it is attached, and sends a signal whenever a certain threshhold is passed)--because people are willing to spend the tens of thousands if you make it sound very confusing and high-tech.
The destinctions are valid to the people who design and install the systems, but the terms are thrown around when dealing with potential customers with the specific intent (even if unconscious) of mystifying. Doctors, lawyers, mechanics, etc.--they all do this to make a mystery of their work, and to exclude the outsider.
That reminds me of the old saying:
If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshi+.
Photography, my line of work, is filled with jargon and digital photogaphy is all jargon. When I was asked "what do you need your camera to do" I said "I need it to take a picture".
Thats it!
Thats all it has to do!
I'll do the rest!
I'll never be a gear-head and I'll never understand them either.
Honestly, I have thousands and thousands of dollars worth of gear and my favorite camera fits in my pocket.
I think MsOlga has a big point... there are far fewer tradespeople and fewer who are learning to be plumbers, etc. Everybody wants to be a stock-broker, I guess. The tradespeople can pick and choose what they want to work on and some jobs just aren't very appealing.
Setanta, I remember that Click & Clack show. I think that they taped some of the mechanics' comments, too. It would be interesting to hear it again... maybe they have a transcript?
My car, a Volvo, normally goes to a private Volvo mechanic... a great guy who came highly recommended and who I've trusted with my cars for several years. Last year, I needed new tires, but it didn't occur to me to go to the mechanic since he doesn't sell tires. I went to a local tire place where I'd bought tires in the past. Oh, they said, your wheels are bent and you need new ones, that's the reason the tires wore out so quickly. Then they told me that my wheels couldn't be unbent and I would need a set of new ones. This was a very expensive proposition, but I ponied up because it seemed like a big safety issue.
Later, when my "real" mechanic found out, he was really angry and ended up calling the tire shop to complain. They didn't exactly lie, I guess, because "they" don't fix wheels, but mine were extremely expensive ones and should have been sent out to be fixed. At the very least, they were likely resold for big $$ without any attempt made to pass that money back to me. Instead, to replace them the tire shop offered me much lower quality after-market wheels which have given me loads of trouble... partly because they need a "plate" in order to make them fit properly... a plate the tire shop neglected to put on.
All this finally came out because I continued to have trouble with my car and there were many discussions back and forth. It was great to have one mechanic fussing at the other and telling them where all they went wrong, with me on the outside, being championed. It makes me wonder though, what kinds of "deals" I really got when I bought my other two or three sets of tires from those guys. I had been a good and loyal customer, but they've lost my business forever.
It was my fault to not be aware enough of what I had, but surely they could have been a lot more honest and forthcoming about something that was their business to know.
Doesn't Cartalk still come on weekend afternoons?
I imagine it varies from station to station, but here in central Ohio, it comes on on Saturday's. Great show.
Piff, i see if i can get something at the NPR site.
While i try to search the archives, your readers might find this interesting, Boom . . .
Car Talk dot com
I really haven't noticed an aging of tradespeople. It seems that a lot of them are in a family business - dad was an electrician, kids become electricians.
A lot of it does seem to becoming a lost art though - like carpentry and mansonry.
I haven't had to deal with a mechanic in so long. My neighbor can fix anything on wheels and he only charges me for parts.
That wheel thing is just nuts! I react the same way whenever the saftey card gets dealt. They probably know that, huh?
Oh my god, laughing my ass off . . .
The official name of the "company" which Tom and Ray Magliozzi operate to produce Car Talk is:
Dewey, Cheetham and Howe.
Still laughing...Dewey Cheetham and Howe...
The CarTalk guys get a big thumbs up from me. Been a fan for years. Straight talk about tech stuff is somethin' there just ain't enough of - regardless of gender.
I gotta say though, some of that is the fault of the consumer. While I'm pretty much retired, I still do quite a bit of installation and configuration for entertainment and security stuff. Lotsa folks don't give a damn why or how it works, they just wanna push a button and get the result they're after. Like it or not, that luxury is gonna cost ya.
When I went to visit l'k, she took me over to see the home of Car Talk - with Dewey Cheathem and Howe painted on the window. It were grrrrrrrreat.
I love the Car Talk website. I can waste a lot of time there, and have. Thank goodness it sorta, maybe, kinda makes sense in my job
