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Mon 27 Dec, 2004 01:10 am
At the University of Valencia in Spain, the term auctorista was used in 1220 alongside teologus,decretista and logicus；the same usage appeared a century earlier in the monastery at Hirsau to designate the teacher of classical authors。
1321，Giovanni del Virgilio was appointed by the municipality as
auctorista， with the task of lecturing on the 'great authors' of antiquity and on versification as well.
My question is: in the paragraph above, what's the meaning of auctorista, teologus, decretista, logicus? These seem to be related to the Middle Ages.
I'm a native Spanish speaker and not really an expert on the subject, but....
The only one that actually sounds like Spanish is 'decretista' - not a word currently in use, but it makes sense and fits the language. A 'decreto' is a decree, so a 'decretista' is automatically understood as someone who issues decrees, who is in charge of that function (as in, dentista - dentist, letrista - lyricist, etc...that 'ista' suffix tends to indicate profession, that it is what you do for a living).
As far as auctorista...never heard the word....it makes a bit more sense in terms of modern Spanish if you remove the c, as 'autor' means author. And thus, if it were 'autorista', even though the word doesn't exist, it may be understood as 'one who is in charge of authors'. Maybe the c is some sort of anachronistic usage.
The other three do sound a bit more like Latin.
Sorry if I couldn't be more help and if some of what I wrote is based on my own conjectures as a Spanish speaker.
Good luck.
The reference to the Hirsau monastery can only mean a reference to "Konrad von Hirsau" (Conradus Hirsaugiensis, *~1070, +~1150).
He (assured) wrote »Dialogus super auctores sive Didascalon« with an annex about »septem artes liberales«.
So I think, all those terms are medieval Latin.
You guys are on the way :
auctorista : person in charge of explain or teach the works of consacred authors. The word applied to a person appointed by church authority.
The word applied also to a person in charge of teaching historical grammar.
Today's meaning (autorista) is : person who explains a work (literary, painter) based on what the author intended to achieve.
Decretista :
Foreword > Gratian, a monk and canonist working in Bologna (c.1135-45). His chief work, the Decretum (Concordia discordantium canonum), was completed c. 1140 and was the culmination of attempts to shape the materials of canon law into a system and provide a basis for its study and application. It became the first standard textbook of the subject in the schools.
(as he lived at the time of Konrad von Hirsau, I'm convinced they knew one another's work)
Decretista was a person appointed by the church to interpret the texts of the Decretum.
Today's meaning (decretista) is : person who explains a work (literary, painter) based on the means or rules the author used to achieve it.
Logicus : rational physician
Theolugus : someone who is learned in theology.
As you can see, these terms are related with scholastic latin in the Middle Ages.
The first two, as Zandunga pointed out, are still in use in our days but with a slightly different meaning.
Francis wrote:You guys are on the way :
auctorista : person in charge of explain or teach the works of consacred authors. The word applied to a person appointed by church authority.
The word applied also to a person in charge of teaching historical grammar.
Today's meaning (autorista) is : person who explains a work (literary, painter) based on what the author intended to achieve.
Decretista :
Foreword > Gratian, a monk and canonist working in Bologna (c.1135-45). His chief work, the Decretum (Concordia discordantium canonum), was completed c. 1140 and was the culmination of attempts to shape the materials of canon law into a system and provide a basis for its study and application. It became the first standard textbook of the subject in the schools.
(as he lived at the time of Konrad von Hirsau, I'm convinced they knew one another's work)
Decretista was a person appointed by the church to interpret the texts of the Decretum.
Today's meaning (decretista) is : person who explains a work (literary, painter) based on the means or rules the author used to achieve it.
Logicus : rational physician
Theolugus : someone who is learned in theology.
As you can see, these terms are related with scholastic latin in the Middle Ages.
The first two, as Zandunga pointed out, are still in use in our days but with a slightly different meaning.
logicus: can you explain in detail? Is he a doctor, a medical teacher or a logic teacher?
Theolugus: But it ought to be Teologus. Are they the same meaning? And what if I want to translate it into another language, say English? Which words should I use?
as far as I perceive the meaning of ancient texts, Logicus applied to a doctor (doctoris), medical teacher who explained ethiology(causes of diseases).
Theologus = teologus, the last one considered to be low latin. Greek root :Theo = God.
Theologus can be translated in english as :
- Theologian
- Theologist
depending on the context.
See the appropriate meaning at m-w.com
Are you sure about 'logicus'? I would have thought, it's an - in today's language - 'linguist'.
With the evolutions of concepts throughout the ages, one can never be sure!
But I'm pretty convinced, from all I've read, that that was the meaning of the word at that time.
(researches on the internet had not contradicted me)
On the other hand, it seems reasonable (logical) that the meaning of logicus be linguist.
Francis wrote:With the evolutions of concepts throughout the ages, one can never be sure!
But I'm pretty convinced, from all I've read, that that was the meaning of the word at that time.
(researches on the internet had not contradicted me)
On the other hand, it seems reasonable (logical) that the meaning of logicus be linguist.
I prefer your first judgement. For that is a major discipline in Middle ages colleges------Medical
I've not changed my judgement.
What I meant with my last statement is :
- On the other hand, it seems reasonable (logical) that the meaning of logicus be linguist. TODAY.
translatorcz wrote:
I prefer your first judgement. For that is a major discipline in Middle ages colleges------Medical
The first medical school (in the "West") was established at Salerno (southern Italy). The Holy Roman Emperor of the time, Frederick, decreed that from 1221 only doctors trained at the school could work in the royal court.
At 1300, there were about one dozen of such medical schools in Europe.
Long before Emperor Frederick (Frederick II - Grandson of Frederick Barbarossa) created medicine schools in a "regalian" sense, there were private medicine schools in Europe and middle east (mainly religious schools).
Avicenne's Canon (Qanun fit' tibb') had been in use for centuries in every school. Even before that many medicine treaties have been compiled.
Latin was by then the only medicine language.
French link to history of medicine :
Histoire de la médecine
Well, your site isn't
that contrary to what I wrote:
Quote:En Europe, au onzième siècle, se crée l'école de Salerne où est enseignée la médecine par des médecins laïcs.
And my statement was not that contrary to what you wrote, as I said "Schools in a "regalian" sense, meaning State schools.
(Actually, I looked it up in a paper, I wrote on the occasion of the 625 years jubilee of my native town's hospital - such like above was only a side effect, because not in the center of the work. [The didn't have a doctor in that hospital fir centuriesm btw, only 'maidservants' and 'menials'.])
Francis wrote:I've not changed my judgement.
What I meant with my last statement is :
- On the other hand, it seems reasonable (logical) that the meaning of logicus be linguist. TODAY.
Oh, I see. Thank you. And thank you all.
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