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Can you be a liberal without conforming to the standard of political rectitude?

 
 
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 02:40 pm
I call myself a liberal because I fall on the traditionally liberal side of most political issues (and I am defining this by a US standard of liberalism).

I support multiculturalism. I believe that religious minorities should be protected. I believe racial minorities, particularly African-American young men, face unfair treatment by police and the justice system and that this should be reformed. I support abortion rights. I believe in immigrant rights and want a pathway to citizenship for people here illegally now. I support gun control and a single payer healthcare system.

That doesn't seem to be good enough to the in-crowd here, who have on several threads here pointed out angrily that I am not really a liberal Sure... there are a couple of places where I disagree with liberal orthodoxy, particularly where I believe that feminism has gone too far.

The truth is that I don't really care. I apply the label "liberal" to myself as a shorthand. I don't see it as carrying any obligation. I amuses me that Setanta, Izzy and all see it as some sort of defining label that demands lockstep conformity. I respect people who consider each issue independently rather than boxing themselves in to an ideology.

Of course, the interesting case is Free Speech. Traditionally, liberals were the champions of Free Speech. Somehow that has gotten all twisted around. Go figure.
 
centrox
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 02:53 pm
You ain't no liberal, bruv.

In case you don't pick up the reference:
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2015/dec/06/you-aint-no-muslim-bruv-britons-social-media


tibbleinparadise
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 02:56 pm
@maxdancona,
Just because the liberals on TV are loud, it doesn't mean that their views are prolific. I suspect that you likely are representative of the peaceful masses that just want everybody to be able to do their thing.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 02:57 pm
@centrox,
That's funny Centrox!

The question, given that I side with traditionally liberal positions at least 90% of the time... what do I have to do to be included in the liberal club? Is 100% lockstep ideological conformity really required? Is this even a good thing?

This question is amusing, but it is also important. We have elections coming in the US in 2018 and 2020 where the question of who belongs in the Democratic party is going to be rather important. Excluding people who don't fit into neat ideological boxes might not be a good political strategy.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 03:01 pm
@tibbleinparadise,
No... sadly Tibble, I am not representative of the peaceful masses either. I have been working very hard to make Massachusetts a Sanctuary State... my view on immigration (and probably a couple of other issues) probably don't put me in the mainstream.
0 Replies
 
centrox
 
  4  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 03:09 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:
Is 100% lockstep ideological conformity really required?

If you were a "liberal" you wouldn't ask that. You are a monomaniac.
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 03:18 pm
Jeeze, that's a funny way to spell moron.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 03:24 pm
@Setanta,
Setanta wrote:

Jeeze, that's a funny way to spell moron.


You are following me around now Sweetie! I am touched.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 03:25 pm
@centrox,
I want to say Centrox, I have noticed you have been stepping up your game.

It used to be Setanta and Izzy who were the primary enforcers of the in-crowd, following people around to attack them when they step out of politically correct boundaries.

You are really part of that elite group now. Congratulations.
0 Replies
 
Setanta
 
  2  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 03:31 pm
Yeah, you're touched in the head. It is hilarious that you imagine some local conspiracy to exclude you. You exclude yourself with your wacky views, don't blame others.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 03:44 pm
@Setanta,
Excluding me? No Sweetie, you are following me around to make personal attacks. It is not a matter of you simply ignoring "wacky ideas". You apparently feel ideologically driven to seek out and attack anyone who presents ideas that you disagree with.

Is there anyone who has dared to disagree with you that you haven't attacked personally-- whether you call them a "moron" or a "bigot" or an "asshole"? You are welcome to put any of us on ignore... but you apparently can't allow anyone to be "wrong" on the internet.

Setanta, you are a Paladin of Political Correctness, Enforcer of the In-crowd, Keeper of Liberal Principles and Defender of All that is Right and True. I love you for that. This is why Centrox aspires to be you.
ossobucotemp
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 03:58 pm
All right, there is insulting going on.

Personally, I'm beyond tired of max. I have oft agreed with him on issues.
Still, he is not only insulting but puts people into groups. and promotes the name of groups, that he promotes as bad.

I take him as silly, and roll him up as an ideological purveyor.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 04:23 pm
@ossobucotemp,
That's funny Osso.

You come onto my thread to say that you are "beyond tired" of me. That is rather funny. There is an ignore button that you are welcome to use. It is also funny that you complain about me "putting people into groups" and then you "roll me up as an ideological purveyor". I don't think you are making much sense.

Osso, I understand why you are frustrated with me. You want to have it both ways, you want to fall in line with Setanta and Contrex et al., but you are also intellectual (I think you are intelligent) and you want to consider other points of view. You are putting yourself in a difficult position, and I am not helping.

You are free to ignore me, or to continue engaging. Setanta and Contrex can't ignore me because they can't stand the idea of someone being wrong on the internet. If you choose not to ignore me, then I hope I at least amuse you a little; but either way I am not responsible for your frustration.

ossobucotemp
 
  3  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 04:36 pm
@maxdancona,
No, I report as myself.

I am only here since I tend to read posts.
maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 04:37 pm
@maxdancona,
If you want to answer this one thing... I am curious about your use of the term "ideological purveyor". What does this mean to you?

I have never been against ideologies. Everyone has ideologies; set's of beliefs and values. And yes, I purvey several ideologies. Talking about, and defending your beliefs is what this forum is about (at least the political threads).

I am not quite sure what you mean to say (other than that you are tired of me... but the ignore button is still there for you to use.).
Glennn
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 04:48 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
No Sweetie, you are following me around to make personal attacks.

We rarely agree, but I am compelled to vouch for your assessment of Setanta. It is true that he is a shameless stalker. It is also true that he will deny it even as he is engaged in stalking.
Quote:
Is there anyone who has dared to disagree with you that you haven't attacked personally . . ."

The short answer is no.
0 Replies
 
Glennn
 
  0  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 05:09 pm
@maxdancona,
Oh hey, be a pal and don't tell him what I said. If you do, he'll sure as hell start stalking me, and then I'll wind up with bruised knuckles.
0 Replies
 
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 05:22 pm
@maxdancona,
Aw, that's okay, Max. I consider myself to be a conservative, but I'm not at all sure that's how I am perceived.
ossobucotemp
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 05:57 pm
@roger,
I am still a friend of Roger, I hope.

Let me know if not.
roger
 
  1  
Reply Sat 16 Sep, 2017 06:24 pm
@ossobucotemp,
Of course!
 

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