Wed 2 May, 2018 01:06 pm
I'm just at a loss.

I just want to know if I'm the only one who thinks this is crazy?

https://www.cnn.com/2018/05/02/us/boy-scouts-name-trnd/index.html
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Type: Question • Score: 6 • Views: 2,236 • Replies: 42
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engineer
 
  1  
Wed 2 May, 2018 01:12 pm
@balloonfight,
Why do you think it is crazy? They've made a business decision to let girls in order to pull in more revenue. Having a title that works against their stated objectives doesn't make sense.
balloonfight
 
  1  
Wed 2 May, 2018 01:14 pm
@engineer,
Why isn't the same thing being done for the girl scouts as well then?
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Wed 2 May, 2018 01:52 pm
@balloonfight,
I also think it is a good idea. There is no need for boy scouts or girl scouts. My daughter is a Girl Scout (her choice). She knows my feelings on the matter. These are private clubs, and as long as it is not harmful, my daughter can decide these things for herself.

She is also part of the "science club for girls". The fact that we have girl science clubs vs. boy science clubs is a bigger issue for me.
balloonfight
 
  -2  
Wed 2 May, 2018 02:31 pm
@maxdancona,
Don't you think it's sort of an attack on masculinity and maleness though? Why isn't the girl scouts subject to the same PC inclusiveness nonsense? Even if you think it's a good idea, shouldn't the standard be metered out evenly? Seems hypocritical.

What if a little boy wants to join the girl scouts? Or what if several little boys want a group where they can just be boys unfettered and free from the restriction that inevitably comes when females join any group.

Are boys not deserving of their own space the same way girls are?

All I'm saying is why is there one standard for boys and a different for girls? It's really rather reflective of larger society. Exclusion for men, unearned inclusion for women.

Same thing with women infiltrating other predominantly male groups and organizations.

Nerd culture, comic books, gaming, etc. Things that were established by males, and only infiltrated by females and politically correct inclusivity mandates after they became mainstream popular.
engineer
 
  4  
Wed 2 May, 2018 02:41 pm
@balloonfight,
balloonfight wrote:

Don't you think it's sort of an attack on masculinity and maleness though? Why isn't the girl scouts subject to the same PC inclusiveness nonsense?

This isn't PC inclusiveness, it is business. The Boy Scouts have seen declining participation for years, so they want to expand their base by adding girls. From the article you posted:
Quote:
The Boy Scouts of America has seen declining numbers for years. The organization says it has nearly 2.3 million youth members between 5 and 21, a decrease from the 2.8 million members in 2012.
In its statements, the Boy Scouts of America said more than 3,000 girls have joined the Early Adopter Program and are participating in Cub Scouts ahead of the full launch later this year.

The Boy Scouts are changing their name to get more customers.
balloonfight
 
  -1  
Wed 2 May, 2018 02:46 pm
@engineer,
Quote:
The Boy Scouts are changing their name to get more customers.


The girl scouts are doing fine financially then? Maybe, could be the cookies.

Hard to believe this is truly a financial decision though, not influenced by politics. The article is from CNN after all, not exactly a credible news source.
balloonfight
 
  -1  
Wed 2 May, 2018 02:55 pm
@balloonfight,
Quote:
Hard to believe this is truly a financial decision though, not influenced by politics.


I'm also remembering that Marvel Comics continued to replace popular, established characters with liberal mandated SJW versions, including making Thor and Wolverine into women.

Fans were incredibly loud with their disapproval, and sales tanked for several years. Even though Marvel was losing money hand over fist, and even though comic book stores were being forced into bankruptcy and closing, Marvel continued to beat the liberal drum and create comic books that no one was buying.
0 Replies
 
maxdancona
 
  1  
Wed 2 May, 2018 03:03 pm
@balloonfight,
If you are more interested in a fight than a discussion, I will bug out (putting such bellicose tags on your post isn't a sign of intelligence in a discussion). This topic interests me... I fall in the intersection of discussion. I am a liberal, an anti-feminist, and the father of a daughter, so I see this from all sides. Let me give several answers.

1. Nerd culture is not masculine. I have a nerdy daughter (who is very happy being called that). Our liberal Cambridge MA community provides all sorts of "girl-empowering" activities resulting in segregation (girl scouts is part of this).

However, the my daughter's peer group has turned this on its end. She loves Dungeons and Dragons, and she plays with a great group of friends who are smart, funny, nerdy and cool. It is a mix of boys and girls. They don't care. She has a similar (and somewhat overlapping) group of friends who are interested in anime and cos-play.

For intelligent kids, the gender doesn't matter. What matters is having a group of friends with whom you can do cool things.

Is Dungeons and Dragons masculine? Try going to an Anime convention... it seems to be a mix of all types.

2. I personally think that getting rid of Boy Scouts in favor of Scouts is more of a threat to femininity than it is to masculinity. If the focus is doing things like camping, whittling and tying knots... why not open that up to anything. You could have a separate group of kids who like crafts, sewing and babysitting (things that are done at girl scouts). Open both groups up to all kids.

I have the feeling that girl scouts will be phased out...

3. Your idea that women are "infiltrating" predominantly male groups and organizations is ridiculous. I say this as an anti-feminist. Women who like science should become scientists, women who like politics should become politicians.

It might seem strange, but gender segregation actually supports feminism. Our society is opening up, we should make things truly equal.
balloonfight
 
  -3  
Wed 2 May, 2018 05:29 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Our society is opening up, we should make things truly equal.


"Equality", Egalitarianism is a fairy tale, ...unattainable. Life is unfair. To pretend it isn't is a disservice to more than just the genders, it's a disservice to reality itself.

Quote:
gender segregation actually supports feminism


False. There is actually data showing that in gender segregated schools boys perform better. This is mostly due to the education system being geared toward the way girls learn at the expense of boys. The culprit, you guessed it ...feminism.

Quote:
Nerd culture is not masculine


Both true and False.

Nerd culture was largely started by and cultivated by males. That doesn't necessarily mean it has to be exclusively for males, but the culture shouldn't have to change it's core components to accommodate female sensibilities. And that's exactly what's being forced upon it currently (fiascos like Ghostbusters 2016, SJW Star Wars affirmative action quotas, etc, etc.)

While it's becoming more mainstream, the audience even today is comprised of mostly males for things like comics and video games. Females are a minority, and the reason for that, is because of choice. Less women are interested in these types of things, so why force it upon them?

Quote:
For intelligent kids, the gender doesn't matter. What matters is having a group of friends with whom you can do cool things.


Agreed. And most females who fall into this category tend to display male oriented personality traits. More women tend to be followers, while more men tend to be leaders/creative thinkers.

Quote:
Try going to an Anime convention... it seems to be a mix of all types.


If you're referring to the female cosplayers, they honestly care less about the nerd aspect of it. What appeals to them is the dressing up in skimpy costumes part, where they can exhibit their bodies and sexuality without fear of being labeled "slutty" for doing so. Women love to show off their bodies without any of the accountability or responsibility that should be in place for doing so. That's also why they dress up sexily at Halloween.

Quote:
I personally think that getting rid of Boy Scouts in favor of Scouts is more of a threat to femininity than it is to masculinity.


In group therapy settings, there have been studies showing that males share more with each other and bond better without females present. When females are introduced to the group, the entire dynamic shifts to accommodate them. Part of this is likely do to male dominance instinct in the prescience of females. Men become rivals in the presence of females more so than allies. Also inborn male desire for female approval is likely a factor.

Quote:
If you are more interested in a fight than a discussion , I will bug out


Well, "fight" is in my name. Sorry, I guess.

Quote:
putting such bellicose tags on your post isn't a sign of intelligence in a discussion


Ah, but it's perfectly OK when the left does it to conservative ideas. Kayne West is now an "idiot" and "mentally unstable" where before he was part of the black community victim narrative. Viewed by white liberals as their favorite house pets.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Wed 2 May, 2018 06:51 pm
@balloonfight,
Why not just be an independent thinker, rather than spending your time fighting one side or the other? I tend to lean liberal... but I piss off liberals here to no end (ask any of them). I will call out what I see as bullshit from either side.

1. Equality, to me, means freedom. I want my sons and my daughter to be able to choose whatever life they want for themselves and to have a fair shake at doing so. You can argue over what these terms mean; but if my daughter wants to be an engineer, or my son wants to teach elementary school, anyone who stands in their way can go to hell.

2. I disagree with you about nerd culture. I was always a nerdy male... and having nerdy females around makes life a little better. I sure wasn't getting with cheerleaders. You are wrong about female nerds and cosplayers. I was part of this community, and now my daughter is.

3. I like the lady Ghostbusters. It was a good movie that made me laugh, Melissa McCarthy is very funny (in my opinion). I understand the point about political correctness impacting movies... but if the movies make me laugh anyway, who cares?

I didn't mind the female Jedi Knight, Rey. I hated the Holdo character that was contrived. If the story is good or the characters are compelling, I like it no matter what the political implications.

cicerone imposter
 
  1  
Wed 2 May, 2018 07:26 pm
@balloonfight,
It's crazy. They're going overboard with equality. Men still don't go into women's toilets for a reason in the majority of countries around the world. Even the military has different barracks for men and women. What's wrong with boy's clubs or women's clubs? Keep them separate. If they want unisex clubs, create them, but don't confuse the Boy Scouts as Uniscounts.
0 Replies
 
balloonfight
 
  -1  
Wed 2 May, 2018 07:29 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Equality, to me, means freedom.


Equality and freedom are polar opposites.

To be free means to be free to fail. Liberals who want "equality", want equality of outcome, no possibility for failure.

That naturally means handicapping people who are already able to compete so that the losers can catch up.

Liberals want it to be impossible to fail, and that is a fairy tale.

Manufacturing artificial "equality" naturally means imposing restrictions. Restrictions do not lead to freedom.

It is simply impossible to be both free and equal.

If your children want a certain job they should earn it, they shouldn't be entitled to it.

Meritocracy is reals over feels.

Egalitarianism is feels over reals.

Quote:
You are wrong about female nerds and cosplayers.


Do I really need to post pictures to prove my point?

Quote:
I didn't mind the female Jedi Knight, Rey


The worst written character ever. Picks a light saber up once and is automatically a master without any training. It took Luke 3 movies to become a Jedi.

Can fly the millennial falcon better than Han Solo without any training whatsoever.

She's the definition of a Mary Sue.

Thanks feminism. You go girl!

The Last Jedi was an abomination to cinema. Perhaps the single worst film I've ever seen.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Wed 2 May, 2018 08:15 pm
@balloonfight,
It is never very interesting to argue over the definition of words.

My daughter (at 13 years old) is already quite a good programmer. She writes node.js applications which allows her to write little web apps. I want her to be taken just as seriously as any nerdboy and have the same opportunities.

What word would you use to describe my desire to make sure that no one judges my daughter's ability or life choices based on her gender? If you want to call it "freedom" or "equality" or something else... I don't care. The principle is important.

Likewise I don't care about whether a movie is feminist or not. You didn't like Rey... I did. But I will point out the Jar Jar Binks was a male character. Some movies and characters are compelling, some are not. Gender... or political bent... doesn't matter. Whatever you say about Rey... Melissa McCarthy was a pretty awesome ghostbuster (and wasn't bad as press secretary either).


balloonfight
 
  -1  
Wed 2 May, 2018 10:37 pm
@maxdancona,
Words are very important. The liberal left uses them as a cudgel everyday.

Quote:
What word would you use to describe my desire to make sure that no one judges my daughter's ability or life choices based on her gender?


It makes perfect sense that you want your offspring to have a "fair" chance in life. But that goal is simply unattainable. Odds are someone somewhere won't like them.

You can't mandate "equality." That's like trying to outlaw jealousy.

Life is not fair. It never will be for anyone. And more bad comes from trying to make things fair and "equal" than good, just look at communism.

I could whine about how it's not fair that your daughter grew up writing code and I didn't have that advantage because of the time frame I was born in. Or I could just get on with myself.

Sawing off a person's legs to make a race fairer for someone else isn't a good thing to be doing my friend.

The reason the left will always fail is because of these deeply routed Marxist ideas.

And Jar Jar is a much better written character than Ray.
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 3 May, 2018 01:02 am
America really is lagging behind the rest of the World. Girls have been allowed to join the scouts for years over here. This side of the pond the female group is called guides.

Nobody got upset because we don't have anyone whose masculinity is so fragile that something as harmless as letting girls join the scouts could threaten it.

Quote:
Girls now make up a quarter of all Scouts, with young women accounting for almost three-quarters of the association’s new youth recruits, new figures show.

In the 25 years since the Scout Association first admitted girls, the numbers have steadily grown - with 144,000 holding membership, including female adult volunteers.

Of these, 92,000 are girls and young women who have joined one of the Scout sections - Beaver Scouts, Cub Scouts, Scouts and Explorer Scouts. It means that overall, more than one in four scouts is female - the highest proportion ever.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/04/13/girls-now-make-up-almost-three-quarters-of-new-scouts/<br />
balloonfight
 
  0  
Thu 3 May, 2018 01:14 am
@izzythepush,
You also have brexit, so you Brits aren't complete nincompoops.

It's not about fragile masculinity. It's about letting boys have a space to call their own where they be themselves that isn't infringed upon by women.
0 Replies
 
cicerone imposter
 
  0  
Thu 3 May, 2018 10:47 am
@izzythepush,
It's not about "fragile masculinity." When we were growing up, our social network were with boys. When we associated with a girl, it was called a "date."
balloonfight
 
  -1  
Thu 3 May, 2018 11:03 am
@cicerone imposter,
Quote:
When we associated with a girl, it was called a "date."


Exactly!

Smile
0 Replies
 
izzythepush
 
  1  
Thu 3 May, 2018 11:03 am
@cicerone imposter,
So you never had any female friends, just potential sex partners? That's not really healthy is it? When I was at college one of my best friends was a lesbian.
 

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