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Do White Women have White Privilege?

 
 
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 06:33 pm
This question came up in another thread. I was a bit surprised that no one seemed to be willing express the opinion that White Privilege pertains to women too.

So, I asking this as a straightforward question; Does anyone here believe that White Women have White Privilege?
 
View best answer, chosen by maxdancona
PUNKEY
 
  2  
Reply Wed 23 Aug, 2017 08:47 pm
Being a White Woman is not privileged now. It's over.

Being Black is no longer a privelege or preference.

I think it's a good time to be a Latino male. In 5 years it will be advantageous to be a Latino female, then an East Indian male, then East Indian female. The list goes thru Asian, then American Indian. The time for the White Male will be in about 30 years when Whites are a minority. Then the White Female.
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Foofie
 
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Reply Thu 24 Aug, 2017 01:49 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

This question came up in another thread. I was a bit surprised that no one seemed to be willing express the opinion that White Privilege pertains to women too.

So, I asking this as a straightforward question; Does anyone here believe that White Women have White Privilege?


I forgot what decade emphasized equal opportunity quotas, but I tend to remember one tv pundit stating that white women were the greatest beneficiaries of those quotas, women being a group requiring such quotas, and white women having the education to qualify for many jobs.

Regardless, look at any tv novella, and one might be confused to see all these very white women speaking Spanish and being the main characters. The hired help all look very Mestizo.

I would add that it is just not white women that have a certain privilege, but those that also have height, straight hair, and speak with tv anchor accents. The reality, in my opinion, is that there are still many who subscribe to the mainstream culture when Frazier was popular on tv. If you remember the storyline, I believe it was about a retired Irish-American Boston cop that raised two sons to become psychotherapists, one with a call-up radio show to boot. The moral of the program I thought was that hard work (the father) can raise one's social class in our great country. Today it is true for others too; however, subscribing to the mainstream culture does help, unless one has specific athletic, or entertainment talent, I believe.
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maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Thu 24 Aug, 2017 04:00 pm
@maxdancona,
Maybe I wasn't clear.

White privilege are the collection of advantages that White people get just for being White. White people are treated better by police officers. White people are more likely to be offered apartments (this has been studied). White people are less likely to be treated with suspicion and more likely to be trusted.

White privilege also refers to historical advantages. White people benefited from slavery, and White people now are more likely to have wealthy parents or grandparents.

All of this makes sense to me. But, there is a little shift where White People becomes White men. The privileges that White Women have over Black Women, and Hispanic women, and Black and Hispanic men are ignored. The roles that White Women played in participating in, and even promoting, slavery are erased (to never be discussed). Even in liberal politics, there is more energy and political capital spent on helping White Women then on any other demographic group.

So that is my question... assuming that White Privilege is a valid concept (which I do), do White Women have White Privilege?

I would like to know that are any White women here who say "yes".
PUNKEY
 
  3  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2017 06:43 am
No; it's over. It's no longer economically or socially advantageous to be a White Woman.

If you are looking at TV newscasters for validation, look again.
maxdancona
 
  -1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2017 09:12 am
@PUNKEY,
You are missing the point Punkey. I am talking about White Privilege.

White Privilege is not getting singled out by police officers, not being followed around in stores. White people get lower prison sentences for the same crimes. Crimes against White people are taken more seriously (google "missing White Woman syndrome").

I am not talking about newscasters.
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emmett grogan
 
  3  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2017 02:30 pm
@maxdancona,
Quote:
Do White Women have White Privilege?


Sort of but they get only 78% of the amount of privilege the white males get.

WTF is your point, anyway?
Foofie
 
  1  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2017 02:31 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

Maybe I wasn't clear.

White privilege are the collection of advantages that White people get just for being White. White people are treated better by police officers. White people are more likely to be offered apartments (this has been studied). White people are less likely to be treated with suspicion and more likely to be trusted...



You seem to be forgetting that there was more than one Jewish student with perfect SAT scores that did not get into the college of his/her choice because there were quotas against too many Jews. And, I would guess more than one ethnic did not get a job, since his/her cultural persona did not fit into the office culture.

All "white privilege" is, in my opinion, is a degree of deference to those that appear white, since "white" connotes part of the dominant culture, and one does not know if that kid has "connections" to make problems for anyone treating him or her with flippancy. Perhaps, the concept of "white privilege" implies by many that other whites are more concerned about the welfare of another white? The white demographic is too divided to think that is a standard rule. You have seen the 1950's movie, "Gentleman's Agreement"?
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maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2017 02:48 pm
@emmett grogan,
You are funny Emmett. You keep saying that you don't want to "feed the troll", and yet you seem to be following me around Wink.

I like you almost as much as I like Izzy.
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maxdancona
 
  0  
Reply Fri 25 Aug, 2017 03:01 pm
@emmett grogan,
Are you looking for a intelligent discussion, or are you looking to bully the troll.

I am looking for an intelligent discussion... that would mean that you stop getting so upset whenever someone presents a different viewpoint, and refraining from personal attacks.
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Foofie
 
  2  
Reply Sun 27 Aug, 2017 12:20 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

This question came up in another thread. I was a bit surprised that no one seemed to be willing express the opinion that White Privilege pertains to women too.

So, I asking this as a straightforward question; Does anyone here believe that White Women have White Privilege?


You have a problem with my post showing that Jews are not treated as other whites sometimes? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentleman%27s_Agreement

White folk are not one monolithic group. That is the canard. Jews can still be outsiders. Other ethnic groups might not really feel comfortable with each other. Could that be why you subscribe to a Humanist philosophy?

I don't see Humanism as progressive, but rather too idealistic for the reality of society and human nature, here or elsewhere.
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Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2017 12:42 pm
@maxdancona,
If you accept the concept of "white privilege" then, of course, white women have it.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2017 12:59 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
I am curious Finn. Do you disagree that there is such a thing as White Privilege?

1. It is a historical fact that 70 years ago there was legal segregation. People were kept from swimming pools, prevented from buying houses and even kept from using water fountains based on the color of their skin. This inevitably both reflected, and influenced our culture.

2. People now are judged by the color of their skin in getting apartments, getting jobs and assigning prison sentences. This has been shown in multiple research studies.

There is a question about what society should do about White Privilege.... but is there really any question about whether it exists?
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2017 01:38 pm
@maxdancona,
maxdancona wrote:

I am curious Finn. Do you disagree that there is such a thing as White Privilege?

1. It is a historical fact that 70 years ago there was legal segregation. People were kept from swimming pools, prevented from buying houses and even kept from using water fountains based on the color of their skin. This inevitably both reflected, and influenced our culture.

2. People now are judged by the color of their skin in getting apartments, getting jobs and assigning prison sentences. This has been shown in multiple research studies.

There is a question about what society should do about White Privilege.... but is there really any question about whether it exists?



This is 2017, not 70 years ago.

All things being equal does a white person in America have an advantage over Americans of color? Yes, but all things are never equal.

Stefan Curry is a remarkable athlete, but his father was an NBA pro who made more money than most Americans regardless of the color of their skin. Did that provide him with privilege?

The whole concept as promoted now is absurd.

I came from humble origins and have worked my way up into the 1%. Is that because I am white?

Society should do nothing about it because it is meaningless.

maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2017 02:12 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Maybe this is a separate thread, Finn. But I think you are confusing the issue. To me, there are two important questions.

1) In America in 2017, all other things being equal, people with Black skin are treated worse than people with people with White skin in substantial ways. These include treatment by law enforcement, the ability to get a good job and the ability to get an apartment. This has been repeatedly shown by research, and they have been shown as a broad trend.

I don't know whether you accept this or not. But I see it as objective fact (and backed by will done research). I accept the examples you give about your own story and Stephen Curry, and yes there are places that society is unfair to people not based on skin color. But this doesn't change the basic fact; in general society favors people with White skin over people with Black skin in almost every aspect of society (except maybe sports).

I would like to know if you can accept this as fact.

2) Yes, I accept that sometimes liberals push this concept too far. In fact, I can give you some examples. That doesn't change the basic fact that White people do have advantages based only on the color of their skin.

3) And, there is a big question about what society should do about this unfairness. Different people can agree on the fact that our society makes unfair judgements based only on skin color without agreeing on which policies are appropriate to make society more fair.

I think that the denial of the experience racial minorities is one of the blind spots in the conservative ideological bubble.
Finn dAbuzz
 
  -2  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2017 02:21 pm
@maxdancona,
Life is rough.

If you're white you don't get a free pass to success, riches, and comfort.

I'm all for anti-discriminatory laws but beyond that, it's an attempt to achieve equal outcomes which is BS.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2017 02:33 pm
@Finn dAbuzz,
Is this a response to me Finn? I didn't say anything about Whites getting a free pass, nor did I say anything about equal outcomes.

I wish you would respond to the points I actually made in my post.
bjacky
 
  2  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2017 03:02 pm
@maxdancona,
The civil rights movement happened in the mid-60s, less than a generation ago. Before that, African Americans were considered a lower class. It was harder for them coming of the reels of slavery to obtain land, work ect. than their counterparts, especially with their counterparts still having a bias toward them .

They missed the big land rush that Abraham Lincoln gave to everyone. They did not have the same education as their counterparts which also made it harder for them to compete with their counterparts and they had to deal with the fear of the KKK in the back of their minds and or being charged for crimes they didn't commit on all-white juries without a defense attorney.

So essentially, they started getting the same playing ground in the 70s but it. However, they were still in the same socio and economic status at that time and the same bias and persecution existed at that time.

Many African Americans born in the 70s and 80s were still born in those conditions and still the same today. It takes a while to overcome the bitter fruits of slavery and the Jim Crow laws. It doesn't happen in a decade or two decades or three or four.

So a person that does not have ancestors that were slaves or ancestors that were treated as a different socio-economic status is at an advantage. As a result of the past, and their heritage many Africans Americans live in poorer neighborhoods with a cost-benefit ratio of doing crime being much higher due to education and socio economic status.

Police target those areas for crime as a result and we now have a higher ratio of African Americans in prison for drug-related charges compared to other races.

If you weren't raised in compton or other areas in the Ghetto being raised with just a mom while Dad is in prison, knowing who the gangmembers are, being pressured into joining a gang, seeing and knowing people who get shot every week, knowing what areas one can and cannot be because of gang territories, essentially having to raise yourself and your siblings and your cousins because your mother is working or passed out all the time, having to deal with physical violence, living in that atmosphere and trying to survive and get a way out with the only option being education and or sports or just joining a gang, on top of fear of being stereotyped by police interrogated by police, arrested by police and possibly beaten and or shot by police for living in that area and never have to worry about ever being sterotyped by police even if you got out of that area through education or sports for the rest of your life and knowing that there are groups out there, with a history of your ancestors being persecuted, hated, beaten and killed by the KKK which was supported by many government leaders and knowing that there is still a group of people still out there that still hate you having never met you just because you have a darker complexion of them, being called racial names from individuals who aren't part of the KKK but are still very racist, then yes, whether you are male or female and Caucasian you are privileged primarily.

There are exceptions to both side but generally speaking that is a snapshot of where we are right now. Many people that live in "primarily white" areas that were raised after the Civil Rights movement seem to think that the playing field is now level, things are ok, we have moved on and the world has been set right, that many African Americans are famous singers and sports stars and that any advantage that an African American gets, such as getting into college above a bunch of other white people is unfair.

This is not the case. Before someone starts pushing against the white privilege card, first move to Compton and live there for a year, learn from and talk to the people that have ancestors during the time of slavery and the civil rights movement, how their parents survived, what they had to do to get by, what they had to suffer from other people because of racism, what kind of education experiences they had and what life is like now as far as education and opportunities.

Only after that, I think someone would then have the chance to know whether or not it is worth it to push against whether or not people from European descent with lighter complexion are privileged above another race.
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2017 03:23 pm
@bjacky,
Quote:
So essentially, they started getting the same playing ground in the 70s but it.


This seems to be the core of your argument. It is factually incorrect. There are studies showing the Black people with equal credentials as White people are less likely to get a loan, and even today are less likely to be able to rent an apartment. They test this scientifically by getting people who are equal in every way except race and seeing who is more likely to get a loan or get an apartment. This is still unfair in 2017.

Not only is there scientific research showing the the "playing ground" is still unfair, there is also personal experience. I am White (if you looked at me that is how you would see me). My sons are quite dark skin. They grew up, as I did, in a upper-middle class lifestyle and had professional parents.

My sons were followed around in stores in a way that I was never followed (nor were their White friends followed). If you think that this doesn't hurt a young pre-teen boy... think again. It is deeply unfair.

It is factually incorrect that American society presents a "level playing field" for African Americans or Hispanic Americans. I know because I raised a pair. It doesn't.

If you accepted that American society is still deeply unfair based on the opportunities offered and the treatment of racial minorities... would that change the rest of your arguments?
maxdancona
 
  1  
Reply Tue 29 Aug, 2017 03:28 pm
@maxdancona,
Just to bring back the topic of this thread...

I am raising a daughter who is now a preteen. She is Hispanic, but she looks White (no one guesses she is anything other than White unless she tells them).

She is not dealing with the difficult things that her brothers faced, she is not followed around in stores, she is not treated with suspicion. As the daughter of professionals in a middle-class family she is expected to go to college. No one is surprised when she says she wants to be an engineer.

My daughter is privileged in a way that my sons weren't. Same family, same background, same economic status... skin color does make a big difference on how society treats my children.
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