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Tom Ridge is the Gone

 
 
Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2004 12:14 pm
Is HS a law enforcement dept, tho?

I thought it had a much more over-arcing purpose than mere law enforcement...

Cycloptichorn
0 Replies
 
Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2004 12:19 pm
Rudy would never take the job. Too low-profile for him. The man has an ego more the size of Alaska than NYC.

I agree with those who say it could have been worse if Ridge hadn't been there. And it probably will be worse once Bush chooses a replacement...
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2004 12:27 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Is HS a law enforcement dept, tho?

I thought it had a much more over-arcing purpose than mere law enforcement...

Cycloptichorn

Technically, I am not sure. But I view it as enforcement.
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Cycloptichorn
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2004 12:33 pm
Quote:
Technically, I am not sure. But I view it as enforcement.


If you don't mind me asking, why? The DHS' stated purpose is to make the neccessary changes to protect America from terrorist attacks, not to enforce pre-existing laws, or even to apprehend terrorists personally.

What are they enforcing, in your opinion?

Cycloptichorn
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MaryM
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2004 12:48 pm
First, not all swiss cheese has holes.

Second, airport checks are certainly a deterrent, and anyone who has crossed from TJ to San Diego recently knows what a pain it is. The likelyhood of terrorists entering the US or smuggling weapons across the border or being able to us an airliner as a weapon is much less than it was 3 years ago. I don't know what more can be expected given the enormity of the task, but the typical expectation of 100% success by some people, even when the lack of success has no standard, will no doubt continue.

All I know for sure, other than that I don't bring m80's and avocados from Mexico anymore, is that on Sept 12 2003 a majority of Americans were expecting the other shoe to fall very soon, and it did not.
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Dartagnan
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2004 01:07 pm
In many ways, airport security is much tighter than it was pre-9/11, that's for sure. It's also far less convenient, perhaps to an unnecessary extent, but we'll leave that alone for the time being.

It seems, though, that the whole focus has been on airline security, because that's how the 9/11 attacks were accomplished. Does anyone believe that terrorists can't dream up other ways to attack American citizens or vital facilities? Very little has been done in that regard, and that's where our Homeland Security program falls short. Way short.
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woiyo
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2004 01:08 pm
Cycloptichorn wrote:
Quote:
Technically, I am not sure. But I view it as enforcement.


If you don't mind me asking, why? The DHS' stated purpose is to make the neccessary changes to protect America from terrorist attacks, not to enforce pre-existing laws, or even to apprehend terrorists personally.

What are they enforcing, in your opinion?

Cycloptichorn


1. IMMIGARTION - INS is under their jursidiction. So ENFORCE IMMIGRATION LAWS.
2. US BOARDER PATROL - Under HSD.
3. COAST GUARD-
4. Customs & TSA

just to name a few agencies under their jurisdiction. So, law enforcement is a major part of their operation.
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candidone1
 
  1  
Reply Wed 1 Dec, 2004 01:27 pm
I posted elsewhere the impotence (or at minimum, the shortcomings) of the DHS here . These are holes--and they are gaping large than swiss cheese can accomodate.

To say that Ridge singlehandedly prevented, further attacks, or was remotely connected to the fact that no further attacks were carried out on American soil is to inflate the importance of the individual job, and to exaggerate the effectiveness of the DHS beyond a reasonable level.
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Region Philbis
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2004 10:39 pm
JustWonders wrote:
FreeDuck wrote:
I'm not sure that Ridge going is a good thing. Mostly, I think that it could be a lot worse. I wonder who will replace him.


Someone who has actual experience would be Giuliani.

not quite, but maybe the next best thing? former New York City police commissioner Bernard Kerik.
0 Replies
 
JustWonders
 
  1  
Reply Fri 3 Dec, 2004 10:58 pm
Yes, Kerik was mentioned often, along with two or three others.

I like him. I still think Giuliani could have handled the job, but would have turned it down had it been offered to him. (Maybe it was) Smile
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Dec, 2004 05:09 am
I'm not sure whether to take the nomination of Bernard Kerik to be director of homeland security as a lesson in how functionally irrelevant most cabinet secretaries are these days, or yet another indication of the degree to which the current administration values loyalty and symbolism over competence and substance.

Let's clear up a few things. First, Kerik has never had a high-level post in Washington before, and so will be at the mercy of all the more Beltway-savvy subordinates who are fighting to retain their institutional prerogatives and stymie major reform within the recently-created DHS.

That's a problem considering that the department remains a cobbled-together assemblage of legacy agencies with little coordination or clear direction.

Second, like Ridge before him, there's really nothing in his resume' that suggests he's up to the job. He was NYC police commissioner for just over a year (August 2000 until a few months after 9/11). His last big job was to spend six months training the Iraqi police force. He came back after three months for reasons left obscure to the public, but easy to discern nonetheless: The training of Iraq's police has been a disaster.

As Reuters reported (link expired) at the time of the presidential debates (when George W. Bush was bragging about how many new police were on the job in Iraq):

Quote:
The documents show that of the nearly 90,000 currently in the police force, only 8,169 have had the full eight-week academy training. Another 46,176 are listed as "untrained," and it will be July 2006 before the administration reaches its new goal of a 135,000-strong, fully trained police force.

Six Army battalions have had "initial training," while 57 National Guard battalions, 896 soldiers in each, are still being recruited or "awaiting equipment." Just eight Guard battalions have reached "initial (operating) capability," and the Pentagon acknowledged the Guard's performance has been "uneven."

Training has yet to begin for the 4,800-man civil intervention force, which will help counter a deadly insurgency. And none of the 18,000 border enforcement guards have received any centralised training to date, despite earlier claims they had, according to Democrats on the U.S. House of Representatives Appropriations Committee.

They estimated that 22,700 Iraqi personnel have received enough basic training to make them "minimally effective at their tasks," in contrast to the 100,000 figure cited by Bush.


But hey -- Kerik campaigned for Bush, so how bad can he be?
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Dec, 2004 07:44 am
uhhh. I vote for loyalty over competence. that way Bush has nicely insulated himself witth convenient fall guys .

Anyway Kerrick looks like a Homeland Security type. Were gonna slap his mug on the bulkheads of all Liberian container ships. We need to make HS a uniformed corps like the Public Health Service. Except not with the conductor hats, well give Kerrick a helmet.
0 Replies
 
farmerman
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Dec, 2004 07:45 am
NO< better yet-well put biker tattoos all over his buzz head
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PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sat 4 Dec, 2004 08:04 am
Will his tats really keep the terrists scared away from our food supply?

God, I pray it be so.

Here's some of that freedom we brought to Iraq, BTW:

http://www.theonion.com/images/414/article3028.jpg
0 Replies
 
PDiddie
 
  1  
Reply Sun 5 Dec, 2004 09:52 am
Does the DHS Secretary-designate have the proper moral values for the job?

Quote:
Bernard Kerik, the man tasked with protecting the United States from the threat of terrorist attacks, fathered a daughter with a South Korean woman while serving on the peninsula in the mid-1970s, U.S. media reported over the weekend.

Kerik, who was selected to replace Tom Ridge as secretary of the Homeland Security Department on Thursday, had the baby with a woman identified as Sun-ja after arriving in South Korea as a 19-year-old military policeman in December 1974, according to several reports.

The baby, named Lisa, was born in 1975. But Kerik deserted her and her mother when he left the country in February 1976.


The Korea Times
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