SHOCKING PICTURES FROM IRAQ

ebrown_p wrote:

Cj,

Again, I do not expect you to agree, but I hope you can understand. My display of the flag upside-down is to me an act of protest and is keeping of what it means to be an American citizen.

1) Protest is designed to challenge the accepted beliefs of others in the broader society. My intention is to express a strong view that I am deeply distressed at the actions being taken in the name of my country and her flag. I think you are telling me my avatar is sucessful in this.

2) The US flag code allows flying the flag upside down "as a signal of dire distress in instances of extreme danger to life or property". My views are properly expressed by my avatar.

3) It is the responsibility of citizens in a free society to exercize rights to free expression, especially in times with urgent moral issues. I intend to fulfill my responsibility.

4) Blind nationalism is a real threat. This "my country right or wrong" attitude is responsible for the worst acts of history. People need to constantly be alert and challenge blind patriotism that clings to the flag and abandons the ideals that flag stands for.

I don't expect you to agree. But thank God we live in a country you don't have to.

Let's face it ebrown, if you're honest you'll admit that you've chosen this avatar, at least in part, to irritate folks like CJ, and because it connotes a certain subversive state of mind.

You're free to do so, and, at the end of the day, it is an, essentially, meaningless gesture about which no one should get all riled up. If it makes you feel like you've accomplished something, have at it.

What I find humorous is the way that you seek to wrap yourself in the flag as a response to what you find as objectionable flag waving.

While I will acknowledge that your point of view is not, necessarily, unpatriotic, it is no more the one true manifestation of love of country than any one else's.

And your defense of the media in regards to its coverage of Iraq is, at best, weak, and your 9/11 analogy is absurd.

That some ten million people lived another day on 9/11 is in no way a consequence of the terrorist attack. That close to 3,000 people died is.

That people have been killed and maimed is a direct consequence of the war in Iraq, but so too is the liberation of its people, the improvement of schools and infrastructure etc etc etc.

That the media did not cover the ongoing lives of New Yorkers not killed on 9/11 is perfectly understandable; that it has not covered the positive impact of the invasion of Iraq is evidence of bias.

0 Replies

A better analogy would be the Al Qaida underground gleeful reports that New York was in shambles, destroyed by the attacks, their communications and commerce disrupted, and the people in panic and disarray, while the fact was, New Yorkers and Americans are a resilient people and did pick themselves up and went on with their lives.

When we report a plane crash, it is unnecessary to report that thousands of flights did not crash that day. Nevertheless, it is important to reassure the people that plane crashes are so rare as to be statistically insignificant when compared to death rates from other causes. Those afraid to fly or those who are promoting alternate forms of transportation might focus on that crash however and ignore all the flights that were completed without incident.

Intellectual honesty is to show postive benefits to Iraqis that outweigh the devastation of the war in their country. Those who oppose the current administration and/or the war will focus on the worst and ignore all the rest.

0 Replies

Foxfyre wrote:

A better analogy would be the Al Qaida underground gleeful reports that New York was in shambles, destroyed by the attacks, their communications and commerce disrupted, and the people in panic and disarray, while the fact was, New Yorkers and Americans are a resilient people and did pick themselves up and went on with their lives.

When we report a plane crash, it is unnecessary to report that thousands of flights did not crash that day. Nevertheless, it is important to reassure the people that plane crashes are so rare as to be statistically insignificant when compared to death rates from other causes. Those afraid to fly or those who are promoting alternate forms of transportation might focus on that crash however and ignore all the flights that were completed without incident.

Intellectual honesty is to show postive benefits to Iraqis that outweight the devastation of the war in their country. Those who oppose the current administration and/or the war will focus on the worst and ignore all the rest.

Whether or not the positive benefits outweigh the negatives is something for the American people to decide for themselves. They cannot even begin the decision process, though, if they are not provided information on the positive as well as the negative.

Make no mistake. This is not a matter of sensationalism in journalism. It is not a matter of death and destruction sells. It is a matter of the Liberal media attempting to prove through their news reporting that their editorial positions on the war were accurate.

0 Replies

While I agree with you in principle Finn, I am a realist. When the liberal media focuses on the death and destruction and makes it look like that is the sum total of the Coalition efforts in Iraq, it is necessary to counter that with the good that is being done which, in fact, is far more extensive than the skirmishes in Fallujah and a few other hotspots. It is important that the encouragers have voices as loud as the naysayers so that we do not lose our will to complete the job.

0 Replies

Foxfyre wrote:

While I agree with you in principle Finn, I am a realist. When the liberal media focuses on the death and destruction and makes it look like that is the sum total of the Coalition efforts in Iraq, it is necessary to counter that with the good that is being done which, in fact, is far more extensive than the skirmishes in Fallujah and a few other hotspots. It is important that the encouragers have voices as loud as the naysayers so that we do not lose our will to complete the job.

Realist?? Forget about your favorite whipping post, the liberal media. Please post some pictures from ANY SOURCE of bombed out buildings that have been rebuilt. Not something in the highly protected green zone to be used by the coalition forces, but something that can be used by Iraqis. The best I have seen is some school houses that had been repainted. What you call a skirmish in Fallujah is a city which has been receiving a constant pounding by air, artillery and tanks. Have you not seen any of the videos of tanks rolling down the streets and shooting at everything in sight?

Don't get me wrong, I would love to see shiny new buildings rising out of the rubble from the invasion, but all I have seen is more destruction from both us and the insurgents, and the reason I have not seen it is NOT because of any so called liberal media refusing to show us the truth.

I am sure that the Kurdish area in the North is faring better, but they were already doing better under protection of the autonomous zone.

0 Replies

Let's just say Mesquite that a bombed out building is proof enough for you that everything happening in Iraq is evil. It's pretty hard to rebuild when you're being shot at. I'm sure you can do your own research, should you choose to, and find plenty of sources showing the new schools and repaired hospitals and other bright spots that far outnumber those bombed out buildings. But I doubt very seriously that you will do so, because your side really wants it to be terrible. So I'll leave you and the liberal media to the negativity and will continue to admire and appreciate the postive things that are happening.

0 Replies

Foxfyre, these were your words.

Foxfyre wrote:

When the liberal media focuses on the death and destruction and makes it look like that is the sum total of the Coalition efforts in Iraq, it is necessary to counter that with the good that is being done which, in fact, is far more extensive than the skirmishes in Fallujah and a few other hotspots. It is important that the encouragers have voices as loud as the naysayers so that we do not lose our will to complete the job.

If the good we are doing is far more extensive than the damage, then bring it on. Now you tell me I should do some research? The loud voice is only making noise.

0 Replies

Apparently, someone didn't look at the pictures....

I know for a fact infrastructure is being rebuilt, why do you think Halliburton is having a field day replacing all the stuff France sold Iraq under the embargo? Bye bye frog ****.

0 Replies

I looked at the pictures and saw nothing even resembling construction. No captions of time or place, just somewhere sometime in Iraq. It has now been about 18 months since mission accomplished. Has there been a month yet when more has been rebuilt than destroyed?

0 Replies

Rebuilt hospitals and schools, huh? I sincerely hope so: after 1991 the UN declared that Iraq had been bombed into the category of a pre-industrial state. It looks as if we're doing an even better job of bombing them into oblivion this time. I also hope that when (IF) we ever do attempt to repair some of the damage we've caused, we hire Iraqi firms to do the repairing. (I know: fat chance.)

Destruction of Falluja's infrastructure (not the first infrastructure in Iraq to be destroyed) was unforgivable. You can't just warn civilians to leave their homes when the surrounding territory is a war zone and the Motel 6 down the road is full.

0 Replies

Quote:

An independent assessment of U.S. aid efforts in Iraq, by analyst Anthony Cordesman of the Center for Strategic and International Studies, faults the administration. Cordesman wrote in a study published Thursday that despite some successes the aid work has fallen short.

"U.S. economic aid has lagged far behind the need for urgent action; has wasted vast resources on an impractical contracting effort, and reflects U.S. views and priorities" rather than those of Iraqis, he wrote.

Source

Iraq: Reconstruction Stalls
Iraq's health care system has rapidly declined in the last few months, and Iraqis are losing confidence that the approaching elections will be free and fair, according to an updated CSIS report. "Recent polls have indicated that many Iraqis are becoming less confident that fair and secure elections, scheduled for January, will be able to take place," the report states. "Although 58 percent still believe Iraq will hold elections in January, fewer are planning to vote than a few months ago." The report also found that efforts to rebuild Iraq's economy, establish security, strengthen governance and provide services remain stalled. Frederick Barton (l) and Bathsheba Crocker, codirectors of the CSIS Post-Conflict Reconstruction Project, wrote the report.

Full Updated report as PDF-file.

0 Replies

in all fairness the press , made similar comments about afganastan , and the elections went over just fine in the end

0 Replies

Are you comparing the pre-election situation in Afghanistan to the one now in Iraq???

And - in all fairness - I wouldn't call the CSIS report a "press comment" at all.

0 Replies

SHOCKING PICTURES FROM IRAQ

Related Topics

Quick Links

My Account

able2know