What does everybody think about the soldier , shooting that?

Quote:

Are you an equal opportunity critic, or are you just critical of the US? When the US takes action, you are critical. Yet it seems to cause you pain to even be critical of the terrorists/insurgency in Iraq. It comes as no real surprise that you, apparently, are not critical of the French.

Why would you say I am not critical of the French? Because I didn't write anything bad about them here? I'm sorry, I didn't have anything to add to Timber's informative post or your non-informative one about the French, other than to point out your reflexive French-bashing. Tell me, have you ever been to France? Do you know any French people? Do you know anything at all about their politics other than the oil-for-food scandal? I doubt it.

I have a hint for you, Ticomaya, the world is more complicated than your black/white 'sides' look at things. I'm not on anyone's 'side' but my own.

It doesn't cause me pain to be critical of the terrorists/insurgents; rather, there's no point in being critical of a group who I have no control over whatsoever. What do you want me to do, condemn their actions? Why would I? They are no better or worse than the things we do as Americans. We kill innocents constantly in the name of justice and freedom in Iraq, so do they. Their ideas of justice and freedom are different from yours, is all...

I think both sides are retarded, and have stated several times the following:

The problem with this war is it is the Islaamic fundamentalists on one side, and the Christian fundementalists on the other. The rest of us are just sorta caught in the middle.

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I'm not sure how you arrived at your "the US claims to be morally superior and therefore it should be held to a higher standard" belief, but why do you limit its application to the US? And do you seriously believe the French don't claim to be morally superior concerning EVERYTHING?

Because we are the only country who can go around invading other countries and not be seen as aggressors doing it. We use terms like 'freedom' and 'liberty' to justify our actions in Iraq, after all, it's for the good of the Iraqi people, right? Right.

Therefore; we DO claim moral superiority in this fight. Otherwise, we are no better than invaders in Iraq, and the insurgents not only have the right, but the responsibility to fight for their freedom, the same way YOU would if someone invaded America.

I'm sorry if I don't fit into your leftish/pinko/America-hater simplistic profile of people, Tico, but contrary to what YOU seem to believe, the world is a complicated place, and I'll continue to criticize whoever I damn well please, Including the US as I feel like it, and if you don't like it, feel free to move somewhere else.

Cycloptichorn

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FreeDuck wrote:

Someone might be perceived as only being concerned with US actions because those actions are done in the name of her citizens, which probably includes said person.

I might be equally critical of both armies, but the one I care more about is the one fighting in my name.

I am amused, though, by the response of some. We did something bad, well, it wasn't that bad, you don't know all the facts..... Hey look what the French did!!

One thing you might note concerning this said person, is that I have not condemned the actions of the French, just the behavior of those who insist on being highly critical of the US military, but prefer to give everyone else a pass.

As is normally the case, the full set of facts should be known before judgment is made in the case of the French incident.

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Cyclops: Yes I've been to France, and I found most of the people I met there to be quite rude.

And you don't need to get your panties in a bunch because you don't like the fact that I've pointed out your one-sided criticism. If you don't like my remarks, feel free to take your own advice.

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Not just rude, smelly too. It seems they try to cover up the smell of tobacco with body odor...

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Oh, I have no intention of going anywhere.

My criticism is hardly one-sided; I criticize all sorts of people...

I believe that if there is anyone here who is one-sided in their criticism, it would be YOU, Tico. I'm not surprised you found the French to be rude, as they often react that way to boorish, provincial Americans....

Cycloptichorn

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Quote:

I'm not surprised you found the French to be rude, as they often react that way to boorish, provincial Americans....

^^ take out the words "boorish, provincial" and you got it right. :wink:

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Cyclopticron,

It sure seems like you are only critical of the current acministration, American foriegn and military policies, and the young men and women who are out there bleeding for you. Of course, we don't see all of the postings so I suppose we've just missed your criticisms of:

* The Democratic party and candidates,
* The French,
* The propaganda spread by the enemy media like Al Jazeera and the socialist press who blame self-interest as the cause of all the world's problems;
* The suicide bombers in Israel, Iraq, Afghanistan, and other locations too numerous to list;
* The international terrorist groups who organize kidnapping and murder,
* Iran, DPRK, and other despotic nations more interested in murdering their citizens than improving life;
* The army of people who insist upon entitlements because they are somehow victims and not responsible for their own lives;
* The huge deficit spending for social engineering programs;
* The self-annointed intellectual elite who congregate in a few large urban areas, and,
* Those who uncritically take the part of the nation's enemies.

I guess we'll just have to watch more closely. Laughing

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Why exactly would I take those words out, Mr. smack-in-the-middle-of-the-heartland? It seems to be a pretty good description to me...

Cycloptichorn

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FreeDuck wrote:

I am amused, though, by the response of some. We did something bad, well, it wasn't that bad, you don't know all the facts..... Hey look what the French did!!

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It was the Summer of 1991, and a young man from Kansas was in Paris, trying to find the Eiffel Tower (or something else). He approached a shopkeeper for directions, and politely asked, "Excuse me. Do you speak Engllish?"

The shopkeeper peered down his nose at the American, looked him up and down, and in a French accent dripping with contempt, said "No .... I only speak French!" He then sniffed, turned on his heel, and walked away.

Shocked

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Ah, now I see. It is true that when travelling in foreign countries while American, learning a few words of the native language can go a long way. One of the negative stereo-types about us 'uneducated' Americans ( a german woman in Italy once called me this after she hit me in the shins with her suitcase while trying to toss it onto a train) is that we refuse to learn foreign languages. Of course, it's a matter of the lack of necessity, but the stereotype persists. Sadly, it's pretty much human nature to judge an entire nation of people based on the one person we met from there.

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FreeDuck wrote:

Ah, now I see. It is true that when travelling in foreign countries while American, learning a few words of the native language can go a long way. One of the negative stereo-types about us 'uneducated' Americans ( a german woman in Italy once called me this after she hit me in the shins with her suitcase while trying to toss it onto a train) is that we refuse to learn foreign languages. Of course, it's a matter of the lack of necessity, but the stereotype persists. Sadly, it's pretty much human nature to judge an entire nation of people based on the one person we met from there.

No ... I met more than the one gentleman. And I'd been told that the French were rude, particularly if you didn't speak French, but the level of their rudeness is tough to imagine unless you've experienced it in person.

A French (you can insert any country here) tourist comes to the US, they will not be met with similar rudeness simply because they only speak French. Obviously we won't be able to communicate well if we don't speak the same language, but that's not the point. We have our share of rude people, but we can't compare with the French in that category.

And FD, I have only had that stereotype reinforced in my experience -- I've never had it dispelled.

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Quote:

No ... I met more than the one gentleman. And I'd been told that the French were rude, particularly if you didn't speak French, but the level of their rudeness is tough to imagine unless you've experienced it in person.

People often find what they are looking for...

Cycloptichorn

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Yeah, Tico, my 'one person' was just for illustrative purposes, I doubt you could have gone to France and back having met only one person. The stereotyping I was talking about was not yours.

My point is that in Europe especially, there is great emphasis on speaking more than one language because of the proximity of other countries that speak different languages. The same doesn't really go here. Your average American would have to go pretty far to find someone who speaks something other than English or Spanish. To them it is a matter of education, to us it is a matter of necessity. My point was that going to a foreign country and asking everyone if they speak English (in order to serve you) could be construed as American ignorance -- especially to someone who already holds a preconceived idea that Americans are rude and ignorant.

All this babbling of mine is only to clear up what I think might have caused you to have a bad experience, not to show that your impressions (or the Frenchy's') are wrong.

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I suppose that its true, folks tend to see the world in ways that support their personal biases. I'm sure that my prejudices against terrorists makes me less than sympathetic to them, and that my love of country and the Constitution may blind me to their occasional faults. On the other hand, a Democratic victory with Kerry heading the ticket never seemed to me as a harbinger of doom and the destruction of the American Way. The craziness of the radical Christians seems as repugnant to me as radical Islam, but then I'm a Buddhist who has learned to take Abrahamic nonsense in stride. I really, really dislike self-centered criminals who hurt other people, or who take advantage of the weak. I am biased in favor of law enforcement and professional military personnel who risk their lives to protect folks who wouldn't spit on them if they were on fire. I'm biased against those who are so certain of their opinions that everyone else is thought stupid or malignant if they hold a different opinion. I dislike chauvinism, but realize that it isn't something that can easily be overcome. There's a lot about the world that is wrong by my lights, but then no one granted me the ability to create a Utopian world ... even if one were possible.

I suppose that is a fundamental flaw with us conservative folks who aren't quite yet willing to buy into the beautiful world envisioned by Hollywood and the radical wing of the Democratic Party.

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FreeDuck wrote:

Yeah, Tico, my 'one person' was just for illustrative purposes, I doubt you could have gone to France and back having met only one person. The stereotyping I was talking about was not yours.

My point is that in Europe especially, there is great emphasis on speaking more than one language because of the proximity of other countries that speak different languages. The same doesn't really go here. Your average American would have to go pretty far to find someone who speaks something other than English or Spanish. To them it is a matter of education, to us it is a matter of necessity. My point was that going to a foreign country and asking everyone if they speak English (in order to serve you) could be construed as American ignorance -- especially to someone who already holds a preconceived idea that Americans are rude and ignorant.

All this babbling of mine is only to clear up what I think might have caused you to have a bad experience, not to show that your impressions (or the Frenchy's') are wrong.

I guess my point is I have found the stereotype that French are rude to be accurate based on my experience. I didn't go looking for their rudeness -- it found me. I do understand what you are saying, but the fact of their rudeness remains. It is what it is. The person I illustrated may have found my inability to speak his language as ignorant, but I found his rude response to be telling.

I did meet some very friendly people when I was in Paris -- but none of them were French: I went to a district that had a lot of Greek restaurants, and everyone I met there was very friendly and outgoing - even when they found out I was an American. ... Then there was the time I was denied entrance to a restaurant because I was wearing tennis shoes ("Tom's New York Diner" was its name, I believe; A very American name, but a very French Attitude Rolling Eyes

) , so I went across the street to a pub where I met a bunch of Irish guys who were in the country helping construct Euro Disney. I had a grand time with those guys drinking pints of Guinness.

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FreeDuck wrote:

Someone might be perceived as only being concerned with US actions because those actions are done in the name of her citizens, which probably includes said person.

I might be equally critical of both armies, but the one I care more about is the one fighting in my name.

I am amused, though, by the response of some. We did something bad, well, it wasn't that bad, you don't know all the facts..... Hey look what the French did!!

[/color]

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Asherman wrote:

It sure seems like you are only critical of the current acministration, American foriegn and military policies, and the young men and women who are out there bleeding for you.

Damn, did I miss something? I thought they were bleeding for WMDs, or to get rid of Saddam, no wait, for oil - I'm so confused.

Asherman wrote:

* The huge deficit spending for social engineering programs;

Hee hee - huge deficit spending on the military is much better. And putting money in church run/approved aid programs isn't social engineering.

I really do have a lot to learn. Teacher was right, Must pay attention in class, easily distracted.

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We actually learn a lot from our military spending. The only thing we learn from our social engineering programs is that they eat up lots of money.

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FreeDuck wrote:

Ah, now I see. It is true that when travelling in foreign countries while American, learning a few words of the native language can go a long way. One of the negative stereo-types about us 'uneducated' Americans ( a german woman in Italy once called me this after she hit me in the shins with her suitcase while trying to toss it onto a train) is that we refuse to learn foreign languages. Of course, it's a matter of the lack of necessity, but the stereotype persists. Sadly, it's pretty much human nature to judge an entire nation of people based on the one person we met from there.

How about the 138 people we meet from there?

I've been to France on several occasions.

I have been there as a teenaged, long-haired hippy back-packer, a young and zealously liberal professional, and as a fat cat conservative magnate.

Ironically enough, the more open I was to France, the more competent I was with the language, the less content I was with my own country, the more rude and disagreeable were the French.

On my first trip to Paris I had four years of honors French under my belt and while I could hardly be considered fluid, there was no reason I needed to speak English unless my life depended upon my ability to recite in the Gettysburg Address en francaise. Never-the-less, I was literally spit upon, bombarded with refuse, and beaten by the French. The most friendly people I met there were a German student who spoke no English but did speak French, an English folk group singing in the Metro who rescued me from foul Paris and took me across the channel with them, and a pair of lovely young French lesbians who professed to love America and offered to show me the beauty of their city.

My second trip was, physically, less traumatic, but had more than its share of unpleasant encounters with rude and belligerent Frenchmen (and woman) On The Street. My hosts were, in this case, polite and friendly, although we had spirited discussions on the US and its role in the world (I have always found that I am never more patriotic than when I am overseas), and made me wonder if perhaps there were not decent Frenchmen after all.

During my recent trip I made a vow to myself that I would not take any crap from rude Frogs, and would give as good as I got. Perhaps this generated some sort of menacing aura that held the miscreants at bay, but all in all I had a lovely time; without incident---until the last day of my visit when it seemed that all of the bile Paris had been holding back from me poured forth. Cab drivers, shopkeepers, pedestrians, airport employees...they all seemed to conspire to make sure that I would not change my mind about the nature of the French. They were successful.

I'm sure that there have been Americans who have experienced a wonderful time in France. I suspect it is because they have masqueraded as Canadians, but still they came home thinking France is just OK.

Clearly, every citizen of France is not a rude and nasty piece of work when it comes to Americans, but for this Yankee, it sure seems to be the case.

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Wanna tell us more about that pair of lovely young volunteer tourguides who offered to show you around during your first visit? Twisted Evil

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What does everybody think about the soldier , shooting that?

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