Binny: I tore this thread apart and couldn't find a link. Where is it? It might not have actually become a link, in which case I wouldn't have seen it, since I was looking for blue text. Re-post it, and I'll check it out.
On that note, I've heard of a way to transition away from a 2-party system called Instant Runoff Voting... Anybody heard of it?
Here's a good link that explains it. It's goofy but I must admit I kind of enjoyed it There are others like with Florida but I like this one.
excellent link, binny. I laughed my ass off. The idea is interesting, though, and I think it might be a good election method for our new government.
The use of mUppets to illustrate politics was well-thought out, and I loved that Miss Piggy was the first to go. I hate that pig so much...
I thought up that system on my own a long time ago. Anyway, the muppet vote is flawed, two muppets could have passed the majorityline at the same time.
and somebody ELSE in MIT thought it up in the 1800s...
and a majority is >50%... so in a big system with millions of voters, a tie is not likely.
maybe you should re-read
I live in utopia right now as a citizen of the US. Our background was very modest to say the least, but all my siblings and most of our children are doing very well - compared to the world population. I was never the sharpest pencil in school, but earned my accounting degree and worked in management positions for most of my working career. I retired early at age 63, and now travel the world three or four times every year. I see intelligent and good people all over this planet, but because of their environment, they will have difficulty with their work and economic lives. I just knock on wood that our grandfather came to this country in 1893.
Frank Apisa wrote:In my Utopia...I would have lots of time to play golf...I'd have a beautiful woman as a companion...I'd have a nice house in a decent area...I'd have good food and sunny beaches at my disposal...I'd have friends to talk with, both in-person and in cyber space...my health would be reasonable...I would not be afraid of my eventual death...and most importantly, I would be very satisfied with my existence and my circumstances; I would not be longing for MORE.
Jeez...come to think of it...I have all those things.
My vote would be...for me, this is Utopia.
Wow! great comments Frank. I think you have found your Utopia. congratulation! You have open your heart, and have seen your Utopia.
I am still searching for the same Utopia that you are in.
Happy searching to myself :wink:
How many times must I say it. Frank's "utopia" does not address the issue at hand. He must tell us what kind of social system would provide its citizens with the kinds of benefits he enjoys in his private circumstance (accounting, of course, for differences in personal tastes--I, for one, consider golf a bore). Utopia is a societal not a personal phenomenon. O.K., now let's ignore this fact again.
JLN, But it's the personal phenomenon that dictates how well the society's citizens are doing - generally speaking. The American Society has done us well since WWII, but I'm not so sure we can continue being the society of opportunities when our schools are begining to fail our children. Frank's utopia tells us much more than just his golfing. It tells us that he has done pretty well for himself during his working career, and can now enjoy the fruits of his labor. Another "Frank" living in other countries such as Russia or India would have a much more difficult time reaching Frank's utopia - IMHO.
I see you point(s), C.I., but most hard-working people in this country do not enjoy Frank's or your advantages, suggesting that the U.S. is not Utopia.
The definition of utopia varies with the individual. Most things in life are relative within the environment in which we live.
My Utopia, or Frank's Utopia...
From the sound of Frank's Utopia, and a big smile on his picture, I felt this man is happy. His Utopia is small, but it is a very nice Utopia. He is a real man who is living his Utopia. If you have been able to open your heart and live it, then you have reached your Utopia as well. As far as I am concerned, you can be a garbage collector and live your heart, then you are living your Utopia.
Depends on what is meant by Utopia. Humans are inherently imperfect, for if we were perfect, we would have established a permament and perfect society from the start. Change over time has shown this to not be the case. There is still an Ideal society, I suppose. A perfect society is then possible within the scope of human imperfection, which is what Capitalism attempts: use competition to improve living. Socialism didn't work for the reason that humans are imperfect... Who knows where we're going. Capitalism seems to be the best thing we've found so far.
Thalion, socialism in any pure form cannot succeed because it lacks mechanisms for inducing incentives to innovate and excel. The system has intrinsice structural failings. Besides, it will always be sabotaged by the more productive capitalist societies. Capitalism, on the other hand, cannot work in any pure form because without regulatory restraints human avarice makes it a viciously rapacious system. What is necessary, I'm afraid, is a mixed economy in which the social justice of socialism and the incentives of capitalism make up for the failings of the other. Unfortunately, ideological zealots for both "utopian" notions make cooperation and the construction of the most rational non-ideological mixed economies very difficult. Utopia is a very destructive idea. Remember the dictums: perfection is the biggest obstacle to improvement, and the best is the biggest obstacle to the better.
Good, JL. It's the balance that's important, and that balance has to occur within each individual. I love the French motto: "Liberte! Egalite! Fraternite!" Freedom! Equality! Brotherhood!
There is a real spirituality proclaimed in that motto. Utopia must start from within.
If you are serious about utopia definations don't you all think that population density is the key matter which needs addressing first.
After that authority structures and then technology.
Some would say that all the rest is fantasy.
live2bfree-what's so special about garbage collectors.Why not Cambridge philosophers?
spendius.
Yes, why not Cambridge philosephers. Utopean society can never be reached due to our imperfections, but on an individual basis, yes it can be reached. I haven't reached it, but for people like Frank, they are living their utopia. Same could go for a garbage collector, Cambridge philosepher, or whoever you are.
live2bfree wrote:Yes, why not Cambridge philosephers. Utopean society can never be reached due to our imperfections, but on an individual basis, yes it can be reached. I haven't reached it, but for people like Frank, they are living their utopia. Same could go for a garbage collector, Cambridge philosepher, or whoever you are.
Yeah, so long as each one of us is capable of finding their own utopia. But unfortunately, that is not true in our present world. Just imagine if you were a poor kid growing up in Haiti or Bangladesh. So far, the suffering of others still seems to bother me... and I really don't think I can find a 'personal utopia' in this world. But I guess if your attitude is 'I'm all right Jack', you can. Good for you.
primegray, Attitude is everything. I bet there are many poor people in this world that are much happier than the wealthiest (money-wise) of people. Money does not equate to happiness. There are many of us on this planet that are not wealthy or poor - just comfortable. Some of us try to share some of what we have through donations to charities and our children. We cannot find solutions for all the ills of this world. We can only do what we can within our means. Even Oprah with her millions cannot do everything she wants to do for the people of Africa, but she does impact many with her charities. I admire her for her good heart, and all she does to improve the lives of as many as she is capable. I think she's pretty happy with her life. Utopia? You'll have to ask her.
