What is your vision of "Utopia"?

I have to add a caveat to my vote:

I don't think there is a universal definition of utopia - not because I am a relativist - far from it - but I tend to agree with Pico Della Mirandola that the human archstype is to have no archatype. Thus, no universal of what I think Utopia is would ever bee agreed upon.

I also fear that search for a common ground for a definition of utopia would be to dilute the definition so greatly as to render it meaningless

TTF

I don't think there will ever be a utopia as a whole. I think it can be managed individually or with minimal people. For instance, my utopia woud be to own my own island and live by my own society, my own rules, my own way. With today's technoloy I could have basically everything I ever needed on the island, but then again, I could get there and live the dream then realize it really wasn't utopia after all.....so therfor I guess I don't really know either way....for me, i would have to try out my idea and decide how I felt about it, but the chances of that ever happening..........

I chose the third option on the poll; perhaps humans will evolve into something else, something capable of utopia.

I chose the third option, too, but not necessarily because humans are imperfect. Utopian systems seem mutually exclusive- one group or nation's utopia will almost certainly exclude that of another group. While some might argue that we could simply close ourselves off from groups whose utopian systems don't agree with ours, there are (unfortunately) too many extremists in the world today whose idea of a perfect society would involve the complete destruction or subjugation of certain other peoples. Either those groups wouldn't reach a utopian state, or other groups would be prevented.

[and because I spend too much time on European History class] It's sort of like Hobbes and Locke- both believe in a social contract, but the social contracts are almost mutually exclusive. A Hobbesian utopia would require that humans surrender their natural rights utterly to an absolute ruler without accountability. A Lockian.. Lockesian.. Locke.. utopia would require humans to govern themselves in accordance with those natural rights. You can't have both. Utopias in general strike me the same way- there are a lot of good ideas out there, but they tend to be mutually exclusive.

-Kate

Re: What is your vision of "Utopia"?


hmm , in my utopia ,i would lay on the beach under the shade of the palm branches that fan me , being held by two young well built latin boys , whom know no english except the phrase "yes your majesty ,as it pleases you your majesty, and where would you like me to rub the lotion your majesty ". i would appear before my humble citizens once yearly, allowing them each to kiss my feet and pay homage to my beauty and leadership. i will have already solved all of there problem with the invention of the wonder pill , witch removes all illness , all personality flaws , and allows them to go about the daly work of the work in compleat happiness.
lol

There was an interesting article in my daily paper about "Ecotopia" just a few days ago.

Apparently there has long been a movement to join Oregon, Washington State, and British Columbia into an independent nation called Cascadia.

By the same token there is a movement to join the more conservative northern California with southern Oregon in an independent nation called Jefferson State.

Personally, I don't think it is possible to find two people of such like mind that they can exist without conflict -- much less find a group of people to form a conflict free society.

As an Oregonian, I can say that certain aspects of Cascadia has some allure....

http://zapatopi.net/cascadia.html

And, as I am an equal opportunity poster:

http://www.jeffersonstate.com/

or maybe willy wonks chocolate factory . the ompas are't all that sexy but the chocolate would make up for it
i already posted my real opinion in the " should we give sociolisim a try debate" . i don't feel like typing that much again.

Re: What is your vision of "Utopia"?
Taliesin, I prefer this imperfect world. Paradises? Look at the History: "utopia" ends always in concentration camps or in Orwell's "1984".

In my Utopia...I would have lots of time to play golf...I'd have a beautiful woman as a companion...I'd have a nice house in a decent area...I'd have good food and sunny beaches at my disposal...I'd have friends to talk with, both in-person and in cyber space...my health would be reasonable...I would not be afraid of my eventual death...and most importantly, I would be very satisfied with my existence and my circumstances; I would not be longing for MORE.

Jeez...come to think of it...I have all those things.

My vote would be...for me, this is Utopia.

Val: My definition of Utopia would prevent that.
I agree with katealaurel - We're all so different that we would need our own societies, and in fact we might need to live alone...but that wouldn't be a perfect society, or a happy individual...jeez.
frank: I like that idea; that making a Utopia is an internal task, not external. Interesting...

It is much like what was said in the thread devoted to "What is Heaven Like?" (or something like that).

It appears as though if you want this[/] to be Heaven...it will be Heaven. If you want it to be Hell...it will be Hell.

Personal perspective is a huge thing.

Taliesin, in that case, I would agree with Frank.
I have an interesting job, I earn the money I need in order to buy what is important to me, I have a confortable life, why choose an utopia?

val said:


That also brings up the point that maybe we need strife in order to grow/be happy. Certainly a great number of our technological advancements have grown out of wartime or competition. I'm also reminded of that scene in 'The Matrix' where Agent Smith talks about the "first" Matrix, and how it was a perfect world that 90% of the minds attached to it rejected it...or something like that...it's like we define our lives by how much horror is in them...not by how much splendor. That's your thought of the day. :wink:

I think my utopia isn't as nice as Franks - I think I am going to forcefully take his utopia and make it mine!

Must be nice Frank!

TTF

I wish I knew how to share it, TF. I'd give it to you and save you the trouble.

I supect it wouldn't cost me anything to do it...if it could be done....but, I just don't know how to do it.

Thomas More's Utopia...sounds good to me

I appreciate the thought Frank - I really do.

I think Utopia for me - if it were possible:

1) Some true friends.
2) Food, water and shelter was nice - not extravagant.
3) My time was my own - I was free to do what i wanted.
4) My mental faculties were sharper - I don't want to be held back by what my mind is not capable of.
5) My ability to love was greater.

TTF

Of course there is an Utopia and of courde people have tried to find a definition for it since Persia was an empire and the U.S was not. In those cultures they philosophers started discussions about " Madine Fazele" which means Perfect City. Everybody wrote his or her own book and created a perfect place. This story is even older that this. Some people belive that Atlantic was the Iflatun's Utopia. After passing thousands of years and all these discussions we still are asking ourselves is there a perfect Utophia for unperfect humans.
What is perfect? Is it something that doesn't have any problem or is it the best existing thing and it would never improve completely?
There is an Utopia in my imagination and humans are moving toward it even if they don'y know it. In that Utopia not all these people that you see around yourself will live because most of them are not complete enough to survive there. In that Utopia all the peple will be equal because there would not be any family to be a place to start the differences. In that Utopia children go to school and grow in the school where Utopia will take care of them and teaches them that they have to take care of Utopia, too. In that Utopia people have the freedoms they deserve, because we all know we don't deserve all kinds of freedom. In that world, we will give everybody the same oppertunity to to beaches or mountains or anywhere thay want to go regardless of how much money they make, because there would be no money. You may think it is gonna be a communist state, but let me ask you this:
If you give a knife to someone who has never used a knife before and ask him to open a can with it, does the failure means that knife does not work?


Forgive my spelling errors, they don't mean that I don't know nothing, they just mean that I learned this language two years ago.

Welcome to a2k Shalgham.

I believe that utopia is possible, but not if we are working to make everybody happy. If we work to make everybody happy then the governments will be in a position to manipulate the people's happiness. If we work instead to take care of one another, excluding nobody, then the governments will be unable to manipulate us.

If something bad happens, we take care of it together, everybody chipping in. If all of the world is brought up in that environment, one of tolerance and caring, then it will be easier to maintain. We'll also have to take more power away from the governments because the power will corrupt the leadership eventually.

Finally we'll devise a way to all connect together to a machine so our thoughts are one, and that is when we will make decisions about the world. But when the machine breaks down, that will be chaos. Because the machine also delivers a gentle flow of endorphins in order to enforce the desire for togetherness.

And then, when the machine breaks down, there are these massive orgies in the streets with thousands and thousands of people, desperate for some old-school togetherness.

By that time the giant robots come in because they were set up as a doomsday system and they've got razor-sharp claws that're just cutting everybody to pieces. But then to stop the robots they had this super omega box dropped. It's an explosive that destroys everything on the surface. So everything dies and the cycle repeats itself.

None of that is very constructive. Except maybe what I first said.

Dauer