SUV's and Support our Troops ribbons

Dear Odious, my husband is a Veteran and both of us have spent our entire career's working for DOD. I think you reminded me in your writings about why I am somewhat unsettled by the sudden patriotism. First of all, we all should thank all the military members over the years who have maintained a Strong Defence of our Country. Most Americans don't have a clue how our military is rewarded for their on-spot service to this country. Military families have hopes and fears just like everyone else, only they make more sacrafices than anyone else. I hope patriotism never goes out of style, but I also hope I don't have to paste a flag and a ribbon on my car to prove I have patriotic feelings. I saw a message in the paper that I will post later, which provides a way for the public to communicate with our troops in harm's way. After I check it out, I'll post it if it appears to be useful.

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Odious Wasp -- Every male in my immediate family has served: there's a Colonel, a Major, a Lieutenant, a couple of GI's & a Cadet. I think about the military every single day and have since I was a wee tot. It is a difficult job and the only reason someone does it is they are nuts and probably have too much Scotch in their blood. Servicemen shouldn't go to war expecting that they'll get much gratitude or respect -- if some of these jokers really felt like that, they'd join the service and take the load off you.

All these big strong folks who voted for this president... why aren't they out there flocking -- FLOCKING!!! -- to their local recruiter? I can guarantee that they'd be received with open arms. Meanwhile, if you can receive your promised benefits, then you're lucky.

I don't know how it is for you, but most guys are getting a little sick of their extended duty.

A magnetic yellow ribbon is sheer pap for the masses and means nothing unless it is really tied around an old oak tree by someone who loves you.

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I have similar problems with other ribbons, including breast cancer ones. I'd rather people give to the serious research institutions than various inbetweens. I say this as a breast cancer patient and a med research tech in my past.

But - I don't think all those people who put ribbons on cars, or other places, are hypocrites. Some are, some aren't. Same with us all.

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The ribbon thing - it goes without saying that we all want the troops to come home safe and sound.

~~~

As for SUV's - I hate 'em. Minivans, too. Most people don't need them.

To me, choosing to drive a gas guzzling vehicle when it isn't in the least bit necessary *is* a moral issue. A lot more so than what grown-ups do with their genitals in private.

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I want to add one caveat to my messages.

I like the idea of ribbons where the proceeds go to the research and development of cancer fighting agents or what have you. Ribbons are dirt cheap (less than a penny) and if you buy one for a donation of over a dollar it is pur profit for the cause.

However, these damned magnetic stickers are making some chode rich who could probably give his two shits about the plight of my brothers in Falujah. Perhaps the proceeds should go to body armor - or better yet a commercial flight home.

TTF

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glitterbag wrote:

General,
Check the thread again, you have attributed a quote to me that was actually voiced by someone else. I will take responsiblity for myself, but not the opinions voiced by others. And like I said before, thanks for staying on target, but make a tiny effort to pay attention.

Glitterbag,
I'm sorry about that. I'd actually pressed the "Quote" button on a posting by Slappy.

No offense intended.

General Tsao

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There you go... I'm agreeing with you, PrimerGray (you're funny, too) and with TTF (who makes a good point) and also Osso, though I think she's being too charitible.

And I say this EVEN THOUGH my Women in Black group says they're going to get some of those magnetic ribbons to show that they support the troops. (You would be surprised how many WIB have sons in Iraq -- I was.)

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Piffka wrote:

GeneralTsao wrote:

You want to see a REALLY big waste of resources? Look at recycling.

Most larger communities now have two trash trucks run routes through town...one for garbage, the other for recycling. In case anyone noticed, they are big fat diesel trucks spewing black smoke.

Then, there are all the people employed to go to the recycling center and sort the trash. Each of them has to drive to work. There is energy consumed to run the equipment for the recycling sorting facility.

Then, most recyclables are trucked to separate locations to be processed, which takes still more energy.

Even recycled goods have waste product which must be disposed of--there's another diesel truck.

And this only scratches the surface...

You may be off-topic, but who doesn't enjoy patting their own pet cow?

However, General T --there would still be the same number of trucks moving the same amount of material whether it is recycled or not. Those trucks would be moving "virgin" resources if they weren't moving recyclables, right? Those people would be going to work somewhere, wouldn't they? It's not fair to only show some the costs of the recycling without adding in what those alternative costs would be.

Dumping large amounts of garbage in landfills became a problem when landfills started filling up and few others were being allowed to be built. They take hundreds of acres and nobody wants to live near them because they stink, there are run-off issues, pollution issues and there is a rat/bear/vermin problem. Some folks think that you can just truck that garbage to another "empty" state, but there aren't so many empty states anymore and most empty-state folks aren't very happy to store your garbage.

In my county in Puget Sound, all of our non-recyclable garbage is trucked to a place in eastern Washington that still allows us, at high cost, to bury our garbage. Approximately half of my garbage is recycled within the county. Our newspapers use a large percentage of recycled stock. The waste paper, metal, plastic and glass are also recycled. There is a huge business recycling all sorts of building materials including concrete and all metal. No job site around here would even consider not recycling -- it's just way too expensive to dump. Garbage collection has become a much bigger industry than just picking up garbage and burying it.

Your points are well-made and acknowledged.

General Tsao

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Hey, General T. ... Thanks -- it is a difficult subject. Recycling is a pain in the rear, but we do it in this family to the extent we can. I will always feel guilty throwing a can in the garbage, but am heartened when I remember the words of an Engineering friend (who said one day our garbage dumps will be the mineral resources for future generations). At least I'm saving the water (not too important here in the rain) by not rinsing it.

I didn't get back to you on the door. Do you still want Mr.P (the grumpy curmudgeon Very Happy

) to give you advice? He's online now, I think -- never on a2k... he's probably reading the NYTimes or al-Jazeera. I'm happy to ask him for ya.

Yellow ribbon talk on another thread:

http://www.able2know.com/forums/viewtopic.php?p=1021105#1021105

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Piffka--

Who are the Women in Black?

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Let me know when they come up with a small car that can tow a 12' camper, a family of four with all their camping gear and a 20' canoe tied to the top of it.

Also, what would the whining look like if nobody acknowledged the soldiers at all? Would the same people in this thread be complaining about it then? I don't know about you, but each time I see one of those ribbons, no matter what car it's on, I think about the war. I wonder if the occupants of that car have someone over there. I wonder if they have lost a loved one in the war.

I do not care WHY they do it. I am just glad they do. I am glad they have chosen to show some sort of support and put forth an effort to be respectful and mindful of the sacrifices being made.

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Glitterbag... I love his thread. Good idea!!!!! Smile

I think there are many people who have diffrent feelings about those f***ing st***d ribbons.. hehehe :wink:

I know.. there are people who put those ribbons on thier cars/trucks/vans etc.. who REALLY do help support troops.
To those people. I apologize here and now..

BUT to the 90% of others why just slap those things on thier cars.. >grr<
Some people who buy those stickers think that they can just SLAP them on thier tailgates and automatically be a true patriot. It is like the 7 year old who cries... LOOK MOMMY !! NO hands!!! Rolling Eyes

Those people usually are not aware of the fact that our tax dollars supprt our troops, our teachers salaries support our troops, our supposed social security system, is supporting our troops, the gas we put in our cars IS NOT supporting our troops. The ribbons we buy are NOT supporing our troops.
There are many places you can donate that 5 bucks that will go directly into the pockets of the troops instead of using it to buy a magnet that is the here and now FAD and slapping it on your car. It is very shallow for some people to think that putting a ribbon on your car telling others to support the troops makes you american/patriotic/ and over all a better person.
It is a clique . And unfortunatly, a clique of people who are doing nothing.
If you want to help troops , get off your rear and go do something. Dont go to walmart , buy a ribbon, wash your car , and slap it on. Go to goodwill and donate to thier troops campaign. Go to the IRS and donate cash that goes to the supplies for the troops. Donate money to Kraft, Heinz, Kellogg, General Mills.... they are SPECIFICALLY providing food, clothes and basic needs for the troops. Call your local base. Army ,Navy,Airforce Marines.. what ever.. they can tell you how to help.
But please... dont make some schmuck rich off of his/her idea to market hollow pointless ribbons buy purchasing one and slapping it on your car thinking it makes you american.
>sigh<

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Noddy -- Women in Black is a weekly coming together of women in my area who stand together in candlelight vigil to remind the people rushing home on Friday nights that there are wars going on and people are dying. It began more than a year ago.

Quote:

Women in Black is a loose network of women world-wide committed to peace with justice and actively opposed to war and other forms of violence. It is not an organisation, but a means of mobilization and a formula for action. [...]

Women in Black's history ... WIB vigils were started in Israel in 1988 by women protesting against Israel's Occupation of the West Bank and Gaza, demanding peace between Israel and the Palestinians. Italian women supporters of the Israeli women took the idea back to Italy, where WIB mobilizations have occurred in many cities. Contact between Italian women and the Yugoslav women resulted in the theme being taken up there: Women in Black vigils have been held in Republic Square, Belgrade, opposing the Serbians regime's involvement in aggression.

A worldwide movement ... It is impossible to know how many women there are who identify with Women in Black, how many groups or mailing lists exist, or how many actions have been held. Certainly it has become a worldwide movement. Women in Black conferences and encounters have been held in Jerusalem in 1994, and in Novi Sad (Yugoslavia) each August since 1994. A WIB vigil was held in Beijing at the time of the 1995 UN Conference on Women. And there was an exhibition in 1996 in New York of photos of WIB actions around the world. [...]

What can WIB achieve? Demonstrating together can give us a sense of solidarity and purpose as women. We can encourage and lend support to other women around the world who are often closer to the violence. And we can educate, inform and influence public opinion to try and make war an unthinkable option.

from: http://www.chorley2.demon.co.uk/wib.html

see also: http://www.womeninblack.net/

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Piffka

Regarding my statement: "But are not drivers of SUVs just as unpatriotic as those that speak out against U.S. participation in foreign wars?" and yours:"I don't consider expressing an opinion about an ill-founded war an unpatriotic act."

Mine is just a snide way of agreeing with your sentiments. Just substitute my "unpatriotic" with your "patriotic" and you will see that my intent was to imply that SUV owners have every right to be so just as an anti-war demonstrator has the right (perhaps duty) to so speak out. That is, their owning a SUV doesn't make them unpatriotic.

RE: "Troop Ribbons"
These ribbons are "magnetic"? This makes me further doubt the committment of those sporting them on their vehicles to the troops. If they were serious they would buy stickers that are applied with that type of glue that is permanent! :wink:

JM

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I think we agree. I'm going to assume we mostly do. For example, I have an SUV and believe I have every right to own the poor old thing. That I don't use it often or drive it fast being also my choice.

I love that vision of somebody hot-gluing that ribbon on their 'spensive car and plan on sharing it with selected friends.

Another thing that makes me crazy is the shredding of an American flag by somebody who insists on running it up the mast of their vehicle. "See me... I'm patriotic." See me... I'm shredding my flag in total ignorance of how to fly it in a show of respect. But I'm a patriot. Oh yessiree.

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Piffka wrote:

Another thing that makes me crazy is the shredding of an American flag by somebody who insists on running it up the mast of their vehicle. "See me... I'm patriotic." See me... I'm shredding my flag in total ignorance of how to fly it in a show of respect. But I'm a patriot. Oh yessiree.

Ohhh lord

I totally agree.
The sadder part of the ' flag fad ' was that idividual people made thousands on the assumption by the american public that it was helping the vicitms of 9-11 by purchasing one and virtually none of that money was seen by anyone.
A big rip off... all in the name of patriotisim . Mad

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Piffka--

Thanks for the Women in Black information--very provocative.

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Shewolf -- Buyer Beware. Someone even gave one of those flag-things to me. I should have given it a decent burial, but I gave it to the Goodwill. Stupid.

Noddy -- good word. I wa surprised too, when I first joined, at their origins in the "solidarity of Palestinian and Israeli women for peace."

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Arab and Jewish women together--that alone gives me a great deal of hope.

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Piffka wrote:

. . . Another thing that makes me crazy is the shredding of an American flag by somebody who insists on running it up the mast of their vehicle. "See me... I'm patriotic." See me... I'm shredding my flag in total ignorance of how to fly it in a show of respect. But I'm a patriot. Oh yessiree.

For sure!

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SUV's and Support our Troops ribbons

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